Transcript

The transcript below has been lightly edited for readability and clarity. Click any starting timestamp to jump to that exact point in the YouTube video.

Podcast Introduction

[00:00] Don Costante:

Welcome to the Rundown Podcast, hosted by Don Costante, a sports and event management expert with over 25 years experience. This unique podcast provides an opportunity to hear from some of the best professionals in the industry. You’ll get valuable insight and perspective on what it takes to deliver authentic experiences, activate brands, and most importantly, connect with audiences. All on the Rundown Podcast. Let’s get started.

Innovation in the New Normal

[00:26] Don Costante:

How can you survive, thrive, and drive results in this new norm? There’s only one answer. Innovation. Everybody talks about innovation. Take risks. Be brave. But few actually know how to innovate. So what if there was a set of tools that made innovation accessible to all by making the process easy, tangible, and fun? Well, today’s guest has done just that. He’s created a design thinking innovation toolkit, and his name is Duncan Wardle. As head of innovation and creativity at Disney, Duncan and his team helped Imagineering, Lucasfilm, Marvel, Pixar, and Disney Parks to innovate, creating magical new storylines and experiences for consumers around the globe. Since leaving Disney, Duncan started Ideate and Innovate, and now brings his extensive experience to audiences around the world using a very unique approach to design thinking that not only places the end user at the core of the creative thinking process, but also helps people capture unlikely connections, leading to fresh thinking and disruptive ideas. In this interview, Duncan shares his philosophy and some of his tools from the Design Thinking Innovation Toolkit. He explains what’s wrong with marketing today, identifies the right mindset required for innovation,

Meet Duncan Wardle

[01:46] Don Costante:

describes key barriers to innovation and creativity, highlights several creative behaviors that enhance the collaboration and creativity process, provides suggestions for how to facilitate a successful ideation session, explains how to get your ideas approved, and much more. I think it’s time to get started. Let’s meet Duncan Wardle. Hi, Duncan. It’s a tremendous honor to have you on the rundown today.

The Design Thinking Innovation Toolkit

[02:10] Duncan Wardle:

Well, thanks for having me.

[02:11] Don Costante:

I got to tell you, your design thinking and innovation toolkit has just had the biggest impact on the way that I do business.

[02:18] Duncan Wardle:

Cool.

[02:18] Don Costante:

Let’s start at the beginning. What exactly is a design thinking innovation toolkit? And at what point in your career did you decide that that was necessary?

Consumer-Centric Design Thinking

[02:29] Duncan Wardle:

Common sense. Design thinking is, in fact, it’s starting, it’s like UX, user experience. It’s a consumer-centric approach versus product-centric. And so for the last hundred years, companies woke up in the morning and said, how might we make more money? How might we meet our quarterly results? And didn’t really care about the consumer that much. And design thinking is putting the consumer at the front of the design process, whether you’re designing a new product or a new service. My mother calls it common sense. And so why is it needed today? Well, here’s the thing, right? We tried four or five models of innovation at Disney when I was in charge of the innovation creativity team. We would hire outside consultants like Idea. They were pros to that. They were very good. They were outsiders. They had a really good model. But they weren’t going to show us how they did what they did, or we wouldn’t hire them again. So then we decided, let’s create an innovation department. There are pros and cons. The pro is you create an innovation catalyst within the team who wakes up every morning worried about innovation. But it’s kind of like creating a legal department.

Embedding Innovation Throughout an Organization

[03:27] Duncan Wardle:

We have one of those. Does anybody else in the building do legal outside of the legal department? No. Does anybody else do IT outside of the IT team? No. Does anybody do sales outside the sales team? No. Guess what happens when you create an innovation team? Everybody says, oh, I’m off the hook. We’ve got an innovation team. I’ll just keep doing business the way I have. So what reasons we don’t do legal? We don’t do IT. We don’t do sales. So it’s a really bad message to send to an organization. And so we were trying to embed innovation into everybody’s DNA. From all the way through the organization. The next model we tried were an accelerator program where we’d bring in some young tech startups. We were interested in a piece of technology that they had developed. We took a 50-50 stake and we helped them scale it and bring it to market. We would also do hackathons and penguins and all that. But here’s what we learned through all of those different processes that we tried. We hadn’t achieved our objective of embedding a culture of innovation into everybody’s DNA. Why? Because we hear, and you say, why do I develop it? And why did I leave Disney after 30 years?

[04:30] Duncan Wardle:

It’s actually fairly simple. People say, are you mad? You were head of innovation and creativity. We all hear today, and even now more so in the last three months, we must innovate. We must think differently. We must think different. We must take risks. We must be brave. And all of our employees are sitting there going, that’s great. How do I do that? And we’re not teaching them how. We’re just telling them that we need innovation. Well, that’s not very helpful, is it? And so I went on lots of courses and lots of seminars around innovation, and they were all theory. And they were very motivational. Think of the last conference you went to, right? And at 5 o’clock, you come out, you’re totally pumped. You’re, oh, man, I’m going to change the world. I’m so excited. I’m motivated. I’m inspired. And a week later, you think, I can’t remember anything. Right. Because they didn’t leave you with anything tangible that you could use tomorrow morning at 9 o’clock to help you think differently and innovate. So I said, you know what? I’m going to create a toolkit. I’m not going to write a book. I’m going to create a toolkit that normal people could use against normal challenges tomorrow morning at 9 o’clock that makes innovation easy, creatively tangible, and the process fun.

Why Duncan Created a Practical Toolkit

[05:34] Duncan Wardle:

Why do you make it fun? Because the goal, you can’t talk culture change. You have to give people something they choose to use when you’re not around. So guess what? Make it fun.

What Is Wrong With Marketing Today?

[05:42] Don Costante:

Well, I think what you just said there, make it something that is fun and they choose to use is so important. Before we get too deep into creativity and innovation, what’s wrong with today’s marketing?

[05:53] Duncan Wardle:

It’s been around too long. It’s sort of like a famous coach in a football team. They stay too long. Prime ministers stay too long. Some would argue some presidents stay too long. But we’ll move on. And so here’s the thing. Marketing was right for its time. But this was marketing. Marketing implies the word at. Marketing at my consumer. No. It’s creating experiences. So I believe marketing will be dead as we know it today in less than a decade. Why do I believe that? Because, you know, you’ve got millennials coming up underneath our generation. You’ve got Generation Z coming up underneath them who care more about purpose than profit. Not only will they not buy your products and services if they don’t believe in what you stand for, they don’t want to work for you. Well, how are you going to be relevant 10 years from today? So look at your Facebook feed. Look at your Instagram feed. Every third image is an advertisement. And it’s called a social media feed. I choose to be social. I choose to see what my friends are doing and other people. I don’t choose to. We use the word disrupt the consumer. Piss off. I don’t want to be disrupted. Now, I may have been neutral on your brand before you disrupted me.

Creating Experiences Instead of Marketing at Consumers

[06:57] Duncan Wardle:

Now I actively dislike you. And so marketing, they just, here’s the thing. Walt wasn’t an idiot, okay? Disneyland opened its doors on July the 17th, 1955. Disney did not enter the world of advertising until 1989, 30 odd years after Disneyland was opened. Why? Because, and this is where retail, retail deserves to go out of business. They’ve done nothing for 30 years other than try and take your money. And what do supermarkets do? They move the products around from shelf to shelf so that every three months you have to go and discover where your favorite item is so that you might buy something else that you didn’t want. He’s like, no, that is not consumer-centric. That is product-centric. But here’s the thing. Walt wasn’t an idiot. Walt created an experience first, retail and marketing second. Why is that important? Well, if I will ask you to name the four or five most successful shopping miles on the planet, I don’t suppose you would think to name any of them. They are, in fact, Disneyland, Walt, Disney World, Tokyo, Paris, Hong Kong, Disney Parks. The most successful shopping miles per square foot revenue. They are by a long, long way.

Experience First, Retail and Marketing Second

[08:04] Duncan Wardle:

You don’t think of Disney Parks as a shopping mall because Walt created an experience first. And so he also created a, well, so let me just finish up. So now, how do I manifest that? How does that create revenue? Well, let’s think. Before Universal Studios bought Harry the Harry Potter franchise over a decade ago, they used to sell their Coca-Cola for $3.50. But today, it’s a butterbeer. And it’s $11.50 plus tax. That plastic stick you see before you that you wouldn’t give me $2 for? No, no, sir. This is Dumbledore’s wand. It’s the elder wand, in fact. And it’ll be $64 plus tax to you. And so by creating an experience, they’re driving revenue. Walt created a place where people could come and touch and feel and play with the brand. Why is that important? So is Popeye still alive? No. Bugs Bunny? No. Wile E. Coyote? No. Barney the dinosaur? Thank God he’s dead. Think of all the cartoon characters you grew up with that no longer exist. Why do they no longer exist? Because they were never given a place where people could come and touch and feel and play with the brand. People could go. So that is the importance of experience. I also think the other thing that, again, marketing wasn’t wrong.

The Experience Economy

[09:13] Duncan Wardle:

It was right for its time. Now we’re entering what I call the experience economy. And I can talk to a couple of ideas as to how we can create an experience for our consumers. But here’s the other challenge for marketing. Marketing was built on branding. I brand my cow. I put, so that’s where branding came from. We used to brand our cattle on the ranches. And we used the same brand. So they all looked the same. So we could recognize them. And so McDonald’s made all of their stores look the same. Starbucks made all the stores. And every brand grew up on consistency, on looking and feeling the same. Well, look around you. I’ve been going to New York six times a year for 20 years. And it used to be Starbucks on every corner. Now it’s Pete’s Coffee Bar, Dave’s Coffee Bar, Sally’s Coffee Bar, Brahim’s Coffee Bar. And so look at Airbnb. Look at escape rooms. This is a call from a generation saying, I don’t want you to be the same. And so the mega brands that have grown up on exactly that are in real trouble because this generation is saying, no, I want you to be different. You know, ooh, but we can’t do that. We’ve never done that. Well, now’s your chance because otherwise, here’s the thing.

[10:13] Duncan Wardle:

If you don’t innovate now, you’re gone. The amount of brands that we will see gone in the next decade is just significant because they’re iterating to meet their quarterly results. Well, that’s like the death of a dinosaur. It’s just slowly going out of business. Museums. Museums are inherently boring. They just are. They have some fascinating pieces in them. But guess what? They’re boring. And they don’t create an experience. But look, augmented reality exists today. Vincent van Gogh could, in fact, step out of his painting and tell you why he ripped his ear off on your iPhone. It’s just software. It’s not a lot of money. So virtual reality experiences allow people to come into your. So today, the Field Museum of Chicago attracts anybody in Chicago. But what about attracting the rest of the planet? There’s another four billion people out there. But how might we create an experience that’s engaging, that mixes entertainment with education, major edutainment, and create a really engaging experience for you to come and see things that you’ve never seen before? You’d probably never afford to come here. And obviously, with the pandemic, you ain’t coming here.

Using Technology to Reinvent Experiences

[11:15] Duncan Wardle:

And so it’s a but we don’t. We just iterate. We’re like, oh, we’ll do a promotion. Well, let’s give 20% off in July. No. If you discount your brand, massive mistake, monstrous mistake. Never discount your brand. Then you become a product or a service. And if you become a product, I can buy you on Amazon. If you create an experience, I have a reason to come and visit you. But if you’re a product, I’ll buy you on Amazon. Thanks. So marketing was right for its time. Now it has to pivot. Stop disrupting consumers. They don’t want to be disrupted. Obviously, your data, you can now feed in more relevant content. So that’s good. But could you stop making it boring, please? Because boring is boring. And so you have some amazing products with some really boring marketing. Okay, great. Thanks very much. And so why not make it fun and engaging? Where does it say in your strategic brief that it should be fun and engaging? It doesn’t. Oh, it’s got to tick all our strategic brand messages. We’ve got to deliver our 15 messages. Yeah, great. Well done, you. And you’ll get a performance review at the end of the year. Or perhaps you could just make it fun.

Why Discounting a Brand Is a Mistake

Making Content Fun and Engaging

[12:19] Duncan Wardle:

The single best piece of content we produced, it was for social, is because we didn’t have a brief. We went with our intuition. We went with our intuition. And we took over a shopping mall. I believe everybody has a Disney side inside of them. It’s the side of them that wants to wear the goofy hat, that wants to roll around on the floor with children. But you can’t do that in the outside world because you look like an idiot. But when you come to Disney parks, that’s a place where you get to show your Disney side. You see grown men in these silly, goofy hats. They wouldn’t be caught dead wearing outside. But I believe we’ve all got that inner childhood within us. And I wanted to bring it out. So we took over a shopping mall in Long Island. We took over a particular store that had been closed for a while. We opaqued the glass so you couldn’t see through it. We backlit it. And we filled it with characters. And as people would walk past, a particular character that might look like that person would walk out on the other side of the glass. You wouldn’t know. You thought it was projection technology. And their shadow mimicked whatever you did live.

[13:14] Duncan Wardle:

And it was amazing. It had such fun. And in the end, we had some actors in there to sort of show the consumers what we wanted them to do. But in the end, we edited all the actors out. And I think it was one of the most successful social media films of all time. And so I got challenged at the end of it. I said, well, where’s our four-part message? Guess what? It wasn’t there. Where’s our logo? It wasn’t there. But guess what? His name’s Mickey Mouse. He’s 5’2″, and everybody loves him. So why not make your content fun and engaging? The other thing that marketers could also challenge themselves a bit is, what if we didn’t have a marketing department? Right? So there’s the amount of brands who have great consumer advocacy, great consumer ambassadors, but they don’t use their content. Why not? Why couldn’t you curate all of your consumers’ content and use that instead? It’s more authentic. It’s more credible. I think the over-polished stuff, they must get it 100% right before we get it out the door. The consumer can smell it.

Using Consumer Content and Authenticity

The Rapid Shift Toward Virtual Experiences

[14:09] Don Costante:

As I listen to you speak, Duncan, the one thing that keeps coming into my mind is that the success of organizations are still going to depend on creating those great experiences. However, the experience in the next decade is going to look a whole lot different than what we thought it was going to look like just three months ago.

[14:24] Duncan Wardle:

The experiences now will rely more – here’s the thing. Technology never comes as fast as we think it’s going to come, except guess what? We’re going virtual so fast we won’t know which way to blink. So if we thought augmented reality was five years away, it’s not. It’s here now. If we thought virtual reality was five years away, it’s not. It’s here now. So why not invest in it? Why not have people come and visit you in a virtual experience? Why not create – you know, gaming. What could you do in a gaming world? Pokemon Go got children to walk down my subdivision, which is the most boring subdivision on the planet. But because they made a fun, engaging experience. Yeah.

Creativity Versus Innovation

[14:59] Don Costante:

So with the world’s current situation, as you said, there’s never more importance placed on creativity and innovation. And before we get too deep into talking about innovation and creativity, can you give a little clarity to the listeners as to the difference between the two?

[15:15] Duncan Wardle:

Yeah, easy. Creativity is the ability to have an idea. Innovation is the ability to get it done. Most organizations are very good at part A and a total disaster. How many brainstorms have you ever been to where nothing ever happened?

[15:27] Don Costante:

Too many.

[15:27] Duncan Wardle:

Right. How many brainstorms will you be invited to in the next 10 years where you already know nothing’s going to happen?

[15:33] Don Costante:

Yeah.

[15:33] Duncan Wardle:

It’s because we haven’t equipped people with the right tools to help them bring ideas to fruition.

[15:39] Don Costante:

So if innovation is the ability to get things done, what’s the right mindset needed for innovation?

Setting Up the Right Environment for Innovation

[15:46] Duncan Wardle:

Well, so first of all, there’s the creative behaviors and signaling. First of all, it’s about setting yourself up for success before the session starts.

[15:54] Don Costante:

Yep.

[15:54] Duncan Wardle:

So even setting up the room. So for example, we tend to all sit with tables. Did you ever used to watch American Idol?

[16:02] Don Costante:

Yes.

[16:02] Duncan Wardle:

Randy, Paul, and Simon, what did they used to sit behind?

[16:04] Don Costante:

A large desk.

[16:05] Duncan Wardle:

And what was their role?

[16:07] Don Costante:

They were judges.

[16:08] Duncan Wardle:

Judges, yeah. The moment you put somebody on the other side of a physical object to you, they will think reductively and they will judge your work as you go. Siggling. Be careful. So think about the room. So for example, the Hong Kong Shanghai Bank. By the way, I’ll bet you, whoever’s listening to this, has a boring meeting room where they work. They’re all boring. In fact, they’re gray. Was gray a cheaper color 10 years ago? But yes, they’re gray. Gray tables, gray chairs, gray carpet, gray walls. No windows. Good God, man. So within five miles of wherever you work, I’ll bet you there is an art school with a professor who needs projects for his or her students and students who need a portfolio. The Hong Kong Shanghai Bank went to their local art school and asked them to come in and paint a greenhouse around the walls. They put down a green carpet. It’s called the greenhouse. Everybody knows when they’re in the greenhouse, they’re expected to be expansionists. They do not get to shoot ideas down. Pixar has a plussing meeting. What do you think they do in a plussing meeting at Pixar?

The Greenhouse and Expansionist Thinking

[17:04] Don Costante:

Give their opinions without any obstruction.

[17:07] Duncan Wardle:

Yeah. They add up. They add on. Did you used to work at Pixar?

[17:10] Don Costante:

No. No.

[17:11] Duncan Wardle:

It’s just, it’s a very clear signal of the behavior that I’m looking for today. If you call it a presentation, I’m scheduling a presentation for Tuesday. Well, you’re already dead. Why? Because you’ve just called it a presentation. You’ve asked people to think reductively and judge your work and you haven’t got in the room yet. So when you’re in the room, we tend to, by the way, how many PowerPoint presentations did you sit through last year? Roughly.

Turning Presentations Into Conversations

[17:30] Don Costante:

Oh, probably six or seven.

[17:32] Duncan Wardle:

Wow. You were lucky. Most people have to sit through 3000 a year, I think. Anyway, by the time they get to page 32, bullet point 14, you’re not awake and none of there’s anybody else. Take your PowerPoint presentation and print it out. Stick it on the walls. Invite your key stakeholder to come for a walk with you. Bring them out from behind the table. Start with your success criteria, your challenge statement, your hypotheses, your consumer insights, your ideas, and cover your final recommendation as you walk the walls because we all know they read the head. As you walk with someone, you turn a presentation into a conversation.

[18:08] Don Costante:

Right.

[18:08] Duncan Wardle:

And they will start building on your ideas and not shooting them down. Instead of saying, what do you think of my idea? Whether you’re asking them to think reductively, you might reframe the question and say, could you help me build on this work? Could you help me think about this differently? And you are eliciting an expansive response from your partner. But get them out from behind the table. If you don’t believe me, by the way, this works 100% of the time, not 99% of the time. Try it on a mate. Do the same old boring PowerPoint presentations you’ve always done by standing at the front of the room with your clicker and record their feedback. And then do it again. Same presentation. Record their feedback. Don’t tell them what you’re doing. You’ll be stunned at the difference in their feedback you’ll find. So it’s very important. So I tell people, guys, we’re an expansionist session today. You don’t get to shoot ideas down. But we know that all of us are surrounded by people who live to shoot ideas down. We tried that last year. That’s not a strategic grand fit. We’ll never get that passed legal. So here’s what we’re going to do. Are you familiar with Star Wars?

Preventing People From Shooting Ideas Down

The No, Because Exercise

[19:07] Don Costante:

Yeah.

[19:08] Duncan Wardle:

Excellent. So I’m going to come at you with an idea for tonight’s party. We’ve got $50,000, so a pretty good budget for a party. I want you to start your response with the following two words with every single response. No, because.

[19:20] Don Costante:

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

[19:21] Duncan Wardle:

Ready? All right. So I was thinking, where do you live?

[19:24] Don Costante:

I’m in Overland Park, Kansas.

[19:26] Duncan Wardle:

Kansas. Okay. So I was thinking I could come to Kansas and we could, oh, I’ll tell you what we could do, right? Because the Kansas City Chiefs are the Super Bowl champions. So we could actually have them all dressed up as the Rebel Alliance. And we could dress up as the force.

[19:41] Don Costante:

No, I don’t think that we have enough costumes.

[19:44] Duncan Wardle:

Oh, fair point. Okay. Well, I’ll tell you what then, but we could still take over the stadium and we’d invite in the Kansas Philharmonic Orchestra, all dressed as stormtroopers, and we could have to have to conduct one with his orchestra.

[19:55] Don Costante:

No, because that would be too expensive.

[19:57] Duncan Wardle:

Oh, yeah. Fair point. Oh, wait. What if we did an interactive food and wine festival?

[20:01] Don Costante:

No, because the majority of the guests probably aren’t going to like wine.

[20:04] Duncan Wardle:

Oh, okay. Wait, what if we do some themed Kansas City Death Star smoothies?

[20:09] Don Costante:

Well, no, because I don’t think people like smoothies in this town.

[20:13] Duncan Wardle:

Okay. All right. So would you say our idea was getting bigger or smaller?

[20:16] Don Costante:

Much smaller.

[20:17] Duncan Wardle:

All right. And most people, after they’ve heard no because twice, tend to just shut down and just drink their cappuccino.

[20:22] Don Costante:

There you go.

The Yes, And Exercise

[20:23] Duncan Wardle:

So same brief. This time, you must use the words yes and as your first two words. So I was thinking, right, I could come to Kansas City, right?

[20:30] Don Costante:

Okay.

[20:31] Duncan Wardle:

And we’re going to do a crowdsource party. We’re going to take over the Royal Stadium. They could be the Rebel Alliance and the Kansas City Chiefs because they’re the other side. Right? So they’re going to be Darth Vader’s team. And we’re going to create this intergalactic lightsaber glow in the dark festival.

[20:46] Don Costante:

Yes.

[20:46] Duncan Wardle:

And we could have a best costume contest.

[20:50] Don Costante:

Yes.

[20:50] Duncan Wardle:

And we could create that intergalactic food and wine festival where we could crowdsource and advance all the recipes from Hoth and Naboo and Tatooine.

[20:58] Don Costante:

Yes.

[20:59] Duncan Wardle:

And we could even invite George Lucas to come in for a meet and greet.

[21:03] Don Costante:

Oh, yes.

[21:03] Duncan Wardle:

And he could come in dressed as Darth Vader and nobody would know it was him. And then he’d reveal himself.

[21:08] Don Costante:

Yes.

[21:08] Duncan Wardle:

And maybe what we do is we give everybody a lifesaver as a gift when they leave to take home.

[21:13] Don Costante:

Oh, yes.

[21:14] Duncan Wardle:

And we fly them all down to Walt Disney World to see the new galaxy’s edge.

[21:18] Don Costante:

Yes.

[21:18] Duncan Wardle:

And I’m on that plane. So, so did our idea get bigger or smaller?

[21:23] Don Costante:

Much bigger.

[21:24] Duncan Wardle:

Yeah. Much bigger. Okay. When we, but far more importantly, when we finished developing the idea together, whose idea was it?

Turning My Idea Into Our Idea

[21:31] Don Costante:

It was our idea.

[21:32] Duncan Wardle:

Ours. Yeah. The moment you can transfer the power of my idea to our idea is the moment you stop going to brainstorms where nothing ever happens and you accelerate its opportunity to get done. Two very simple words from the world of improv will stop a reductionist in their tracks. If you tend to be a reductionist yourself, if you tend to be surrounded by people who constantly shoot your ideas down, just remind them, guys, we’re not green lighting the idea for execution today. We’re just green housing it together.

[22:00] Don Costante:

That’s awesome.

Taking the First Offer

[22:01] Duncan Wardle:

And by the way, take the first idea somebody throws out. Do not shoot it down. And here’s why. Innovation is about an idea that you couldn’t come up with by yourself. So somebody says something different to what you’re thinking. That’s a really good place to start. So let’s say you and I are responsible for driving pizza hut sales in Kansas, starting in Q4, which is in October. And I say, oh, pink fluffy slippers. And your automatic reaction is don’t be so stupid. But if you stop for a moment and seek to understand by asking questions, why pink fluffy slippers? Well, didn’t you know it’s breast cancer awareness?

[22:32] Don Costante:

Oh, no, I didn’t.

[22:33] Duncan Wardle:

Well, I was thinking we could do a promotion with the NFL, right? And we’re going to create this screaming hot pink pizza. And in fact, the Kansas City Chiefs are going to wear pink that night to kick it off. Everybody’s going to get the screaming hot pink pizza free in the stadium. It’s going to have hot pink pepperoni, hot pink chilies. 25% of the ticket is going to go to breast cancer awareness that night. But if anybody orders one through Uber Eats in the following month, they’re going to get a pair of pink fluffy branded sizzling slippers. And suddenly you’re like, oh, shit, that’s a really good idea. But if the first two words out of your mouth will know because you’re gone. So always take the first offer. You don’t know where it’s going to go. It could end up a good idea or a bad idea. Take that idea for two reasons. A, you weren’t thinking of it. Good place to start. B, if you don’t, the person who threw it out will shut down for the rest of the session.

[23:18] Don Costante:

So true.

[23:19] Duncan Wardle:

They may have genius two minutes from now, two hours from now, two days from now. You’ll never hear from them again if the first two words out of your mouth are no because. It’s playfulness. Why should you be playful at the right time? So let me ask you a question. Close your eyes.

Playfulness and Where Great Ideas Come From

[23:31] Don Costante:

Okay.

[23:31] Duncan Wardle:

Where are you usually and what are you doing when you get your best ideas?

[23:35] Don Costante:

No question. The shower.

[23:36] Duncan Wardle:

Okay. So you can open your eyes. I’ll hear shower, commuting, walking, bathing, falling asleep, waking up, drinking, driving. But I never hear at work. I’ve never heard it. I’ve done it with 3,000 people in the audience and got them to write it down. Nobody wrote down at work. Think of that last verbal argument you have with somebody. Just close your eyes for a second.

[23:53] Don Costante:

Okay.

[23:54] Duncan Wardle:

Okay. Got it. Yeah. So open your eyes. The argument’s over. You’re angry at Fred. Fred, you son of a bitch. You blank up with my boss on that email. I’ll never work with you again. Storm out of the office. Pissed off at Fred. Never work with him again. Total bastard. Go over to my local coffee shop. Sit down. Five or 10 minutes after the argument’s over. Got my cappuccino. Beginning to relax. And boom. What just popped into your head?

[24:12] Don Costante:

The one liner that I wish I had used.

[24:14] Duncan Wardle:

Yeah. The killer one liner. The perfect, beautiful one line. The, oh yeah, if I’d have said that. Oh yeah, it would have gone down. Did you ever deliver the perfect line to any argument?

[24:22] Don Costante:

No. Not a chance. No.

[24:24] Duncan Wardle:

Always five minutes afterwards. Why? Why is it five minutes afterwards? When you’re in an argument, your brain is very busy defending itself. And when you’re in the office, you’re doing emails, doing presentations, doing PowerPoints, answering phone calls on a Zoom. We hear ourselves say, I don’t have time to think. The number one barrier to innovation. But the moment you gave yourself time to think, you stepped into the shower, you’re falling asleep, you walked away from the argument, boom, you came up with a killer one liner or the big idea. Well, how do you get there on demand when you’re looking for big ideas? Believe it or not, by being playful. One of the things that children are very good at. Why is playfulness important? Why do I run energizers at the beginning of every session I run? I ran an energizer for 60 seconds. It’s a fun exercise deliberately targeted to make people laugh. Because the moment I hear people laugh, I know I’ve opened the door between their conscious and subconscious brain. It’s called the reticular activating system. I call it a door because it’s easy to remember. It separates your conscious brain from your subconscious brain.

The Number One Barrier to Innovation

Using Playfulness to Access Better Thinking

[25:18] Duncan Wardle:

But your subconscious brain is 87% of the capacity of your brain. But you’re not using it most of the day because the door is closed because you’re stressed and you don’t give yourself time to think. You’re working with 13% of your brain. Well, wouldn’t it be nice if you could access the other 87%? And by being playful, you do exactly that. So as you step into the shower, you can still make an informed decision, but you can still have big ideas. You’ve just opened that door wide enough from what I call busy beta to amazing alpha. If you get your best ideas falling asleep or waking up, the expression came from Thomas Edison when the penny dropped, that eureka moment when I had the big idea. Thomas Edison used to literally put a penny between his knees, sit in an armchair at night, put a tin tray on the floor. As he would fall asleep, his muscles would relax. The penny would drop, make a noise and wake him up. And he would write down whatever he was thinking. And you may think, that’s stupid. I’d never do that. Okay, we’ll have more patents invented in the 20th century than anybody else. If you’re one of those people who gets their best ideas before you fall asleep or as you’re

[26:17] Duncan Wardle:

waking up, just keep a note pad by the bed because you promise yourself you won’t forget them by 7am. But we all know you don’t. You always forget them. So the other thing is, brief in the ideation session four or five days in advance. Why is that important? It’s important because you will go to the place where you have all your best ideas between now and the ideation session. We’d like to think you have a shower. You’ll walk the dog. You’ll go commuting. You’ll fall asleep. You’ll wake up. All those places where you have your best ideas.

Preparing People Before an Ideation Session

Barriers to Creativity and Innovation

[26:44] Don Costante:

Now, I’ve heard you say in the past, we’re all born creative. We’re all born with amazing imaginations. If that’s the case, what happened? Why do so many people struggle with the creative and innovation process? Can you speak to some of the barriers to the innovation and creativity process? I know that you mentioned already lack of time. What other obstacles or barriers are there?

[27:06] Duncan Wardle:

Oh, this is easy. You. Everybody listening to this podcast, you are the biggest barrier to innovation and so am I. And here’s why. I worked for the first 20 years at Disney. I was in public relations. I ended up as head of public relations before I took over innovation and creativity for the last 10 years. My river of thinking on Disney and public relations is very fast, very wide and very deep, built on years of experience and expertise. It enables me to make quick and informed decisions. But we all stay in our river of thinking. We’re being asked to get out of our river of thinking and think differently and disrupt more often and faster. But we can’t do it because it’s difficult to stop thinking the way you’ve always thought and to help people think differently. So I’ve developed some tools to help people do exactly that. The first one is called What If? What if the rules no longer applied? Essentially, it was applied by Walt Disney to create the biggest creative idea of the 20th century. He used to show movies in a movie theater. And he wanted its heat pumped in during the hot scenes with flames or mist pumped in when it was raining.

Escaping Your River of Thinking

The What If Tool

How Walt Disney Used What If to Create Disneyland

[28:09] Duncan Wardle:

And the theater owner said, no, Walt, too expensive. So Walt used this tool called What If? And he listed all the rules of going to movie theater. It’s dark, it’s dirty, and I must go at the set time. I must watch one movie at a time. I must buy a ticket. I, Walt, can’t control the environment. So he then, in less than two minutes, asked as many What If? absurd questions as you can in less than two minutes. Why do you do it in less than two minutes? Because if you take longer, you’ll think of all the reasons why you can’t do it. And he said, well, what if I could control the environment? That’s not provocative enough. The more provocative a misurge of What If question, the further out of the river of thinking you get. So he said, well, what if I take my movies out of the theater? Well, that was a provocative question in 1940. If you know the answer already, it is not innovation. It is iteration. He didn’t know how to do it. So he said, well, what if I take my movies out of the theater? They can’t be two-dimensional. Well, wait a minute. What if I make them three-dimensional? Well, if I make them three-dimensional, I’d have to have people play the characters.

[29:03] Duncan Wardle:

Well, if I had people play the characters, I’d have to have them wear costumes. Well, but people wouldn’t be immersed in the stories because you can’t have Cinderella standing next to Jack Spare and David Crockett. What if I put different lands? Oh, wait a minute. Boom. What if I called it Disneyland? The biggest creative idea of the 20th century. You, like I, used to go to Blockbuster Video. You, like I, were fed up for paying late fees. This tool created Netflix. It created Uber. It created Facebook. So the founder of Netflix said, he listed the rules of going to Blockbuster Video. I have to be kind of rewind. I can only get three at a time. They never have the one I want on opening day weekend. I have to pay a late fee. I have to drive to a physical store. And he said, what if there was no physical store? And he looked around the world and there was YouTube. Been around a decade streaming amateur content. He said, what if I just streamed professional content? Boom. Netflix was born. It’s a very simple tool to use. It’s easy to look at Disney and Netflix and say, oh, we don’t have their money and resources. That’s a cop-out. I believe the more creative people are actually the people who have less money.

How What If Created New Business Models

Creativity Without Large Budgets

[30:01] Duncan Wardle:

I worked in the Dharavi Slum in Mumbai a couple of years ago. If you’ve seen Slumdog Millionaire, that slum really exists. Five million people live in it. But the level of creativity and entrepreneurialism, India will be the world’s largest superpower by 2050. It will blow past the United States of America. Why will it do that? Because they’re all entrepreneurs and they don’t go to school. Schools are killing creativity. Schools tell you there’s only one right answer. So you stop asking the second one. When you were a kid, you got something for Christmas. It came in a monstrous box and you spent one day playing with a toy and a week playing with a box. Why? Because the box could be anything you wanted it to be. It was your castle. It was your fort. It was your rocket ship. It was your kitchen. And then you went to school and the teacher said it’s just a box.

How School Can Limit Creativity

Using the Five Whys to Find the Real Insight

[30:44] Don Costante:

Right.

[30:44] Duncan Wardle:

And so as a kid, you used to ask, as a kid, you used to ask, why, why, why, why, why, why, why? Your children are actually better than your consumer insights team at getting to the core consumer truth. Because they don’t stop at the first or second why. They keep drilling down because they know you lied the first time. And so if you ask somebody, as your data does, why do you go to Disney parks? If I did that on a survey, the survey would tell me out of 5,000 people, oh, we come for the rides. Oh, well, then I’ll just spend a couple of hundred million dollars on a capital investment strategy building new rides. Well, wait a minute. What if I act childlike, not childish, pause for a moment, spend time with my consumer and say, well, why do you go for the ride? Well, I love It’s a Small World. Why on earth do you love It’s a Small World? Well, I remember music. Why is that important? That reminds me of going with my mum. Why is that significant? I take my daughter now. Boom. On the fifth why, your insight for innovation is unveiled. She’s not going for a new capital investment strategy. She’s going because of her memory and nostalgia.

[31:38] Duncan Wardle:

That is a communication campaign, not a capital investment strategy, one that saves you hundreds of millions of dollars of going in the wrong direction. So we’re born creative. We’re born curious. And then we just get it squeezed out of us. So I was in the slump. The project I was given was how might we create light where there is no electricity. I didn’t know how to do it. But we noticed one day we were out having lunch outside and there was a plastic bottle on the table, a small one that you drink out of. And the sunlight hit it and it refracted the light across the table. So we peeled the label off the bottle and the light went further, refracted further off the edge of the table. So we played with water drinking up and down and we refracted light further and further and further. Then we cut off the little lip that you drink out of and the light refracted further. So then we went inside to a hut because they have no windows because they’re side by side by side. We cut a hole in the roof of the hut, stuffed the bottle through the hole. And sure enough, during daylight hours, we lit the entire hut where there was no electricity. So I phoned up the CMO of, I think it was Evian at the time.

Creating Light Without Electricity

[32:42] Duncan Wardle:

And I said, hey, you’re about to trash the planet with 500,000 empty plastic bottles. Or you could give them to me for free. And you have to take your brand off because I don’t want the label. And I explained why I didn’t want the label. And we lit 500,000 huts or free where there was no electricity.

[32:56] Don Costante:

Wow.

[32:56] Duncan Wardle:

So saying you don’t have the resources, in my opinion, is a total cop-out. If you see the level of industrialization that’s taking place in Islam with no resources, it will blow your mind. And so saying we don’t have the resources is just, it’s a total cop-out. The other thing you might consider doing is bringing in a naive expert into every session you run.

Bringing a Naive Expert Into the Room

[33:16] Don Costante:

What or who is a naive expert? And what is their role?

[33:19] Duncan Wardle:

A naive expert is somebody who doesn’t work for you. And they don’t know what you’re working on. They don’t work in your industry. They won’t solve the challenge for you. That is an unrealistic expectation. Their role is there to stop you thinking the way you always do by asking the silly question that you’re too embarrassed to answer your peers or to throw out the audacious idea ungoverned by your politics, hierarchy and turf. Do you have a paper and pen with you, Dom?

[33:41] Don Costante:

Yeah, I do.

[33:42] Duncan Wardle:

Cool. All right. So we were tasked by Disney Imagineering to come up with a new retail dining and entertainment complex for Hong Kong Disneyland. I had in the room 12 white male American architects over 50. That is called groupthink. I invited into the room a young female Chinese chef from Hong Kong because we were doing a session in Hong Kong. I invited her in because she was the antipathy. She wasn’t an architect. She wasn’t male. She wasn’t old. She was a young female Chinese chef. And so I knew she would think differently to have the other room. And I gave them the following task that I will give you now. And if you’re listening at home and if you’ve got a pen and piece of paper, grab it. I’m going to name an object. You’re going to draw it. But you only get seven seconds to draw that object. Tell me when you’re ready.

Breaking Groupthink at Disney Imagineering

[34:21] Don Costante:

I’m ready.

[34:22] Duncan Wardle:

All right. Please, would you draw a house? Seven, six, five, four, three, two, one. Now, I’ll describe your house to you and you tell me how accurate I am.

The Seven-Second House Exercise

[34:36] Don Costante:

Okay.

[34:36] Duncan Wardle:

It’s a square at the bottom. It’s got a door in the middle at the front on the ground floor. You’ve drawn two windows. You’ve probably still so insecure you’ve drawn bars over them.

[34:45] Don Costante:

Yeah.

[34:45] Duncan Wardle:

And the shape of the roof is a triangle. How did I do?

[34:48] Don Costante:

And I have a chimney too, so.

[34:50] Duncan Wardle:

Oh, well, there you go. And I dare say, you went into your river of thinking. All of your experiences, all your expertise tells you this is what a house should look like. And you didn’t even consider the options. Well, when we held our pictures up, all of them looked the same except one, the young Chinese female chef. She drew dim sum architecture. And so, which is the dim sum that your bamboo dish that your dim sum comes in with a little Chinese lady waving out the side of it. And on the way out the door, somebody put a post-it note over her drawing that said dim sum architecture. Distinctly Disney, authentically Chinese. Seven years later, the strategic brand positioning that guided the entire design of the Shanghai Disney Resort was distinctly Disney, authentically Chinese. Another tool you can use, actually quite a useful one, created by Walt Disney. Simply by re-expressing the challenge to stop you thinking the way you always have and to help you think differently. He said, we will not have any customers in our park. We will only have guests. We will not have any employees in our park. We will only have cast members. They’ll be cast for a role in the show.

Re-Expressing the Challenge

[35:51] Duncan Wardle:

They’ll wear a costume, not a uniform. They’ll work on stage, not backstage. And with that simple re-expression of a challenge, he stops people thinking the way they always did. Got people to consider guest service in a completely different way has created the best guest service in the world that everybody tries to replicate, duplicate, but nobody gets it right. So an example of how this tool works, let’s say I’m coming to Kansas. You’ve got a pen and a piece of paper. I would like you to shout one out as you write them down. We’re going to open a car wash together. I want you to tell me three of the essential components we must have in our car wash.

Car Wash Versus Auto Spa

[36:22] Don Costante:

Okay.

[36:22] Duncan Wardle:

Soap.

[36:22] Don Costante:

Soap.

[36:23] Duncan Wardle:

Water.

[36:23] Don Costante:

Water.

[36:24] Duncan Wardle:

Brushes.

[36:25] Don Costante:

Brushes.

[36:25] Duncan Wardle:

Towels. That’ll do. Yep. That’s good. All right. So let’s say I was actually coming to Kansas and, oh, by the way, did you not go to Kansas City?

[36:33] Don Costante:

Yes.

[36:34] Duncan Wardle:

Yeah, I realized that when I moved here. Good God. Well, could you tell the rest of the planet to stop us all showing up in the wrong one, please?

[36:41] Don Costante:

Yeah, I hear you.

[36:41] Duncan Wardle:

Anyway, sorry. So now I’m coming to Kansas City, Missouri or Kansas City, Kansas, and you and I are going to go into business and we’re going to open an auto spa. Now, what could we put in our auto spa?

[36:54] Don Costante:

Massage chair.

[36:56] Duncan Wardle:

Masseuse.

[36:56] Don Costante:

Masseuse.

[36:57] Duncan Wardle:

Concierge.

[36:58] Don Costante:

Concierge.

[36:59] Duncan Wardle:

Drinks.

[37:00] Don Costante:

Drinks.

[37:00] Duncan Wardle:

That’ll do. Stop. I said car wash. You went into your river of thinking. You said water brushes, sponge dryer. I said auto spa. You went masseuse first.

[37:08] Don Costante:

Right.

[37:09] Duncan Wardle:

In less than five seconds, all I did was re-express the challenge. It’s the same challenge, but created a much more exciting product. So it’s a very simple tool. In 2011, if we had said, and by the way, if companies consider to ask the following question, they will go out of business. And this is the question they’ve asked themselves for 100 years, so they’re going to have a hard time to stop asking it. How might we make more money? We’ve asked it for 100 years. And it worked because Wall Street dominated the way we do business. Generation Z will insist that they do not. Generation Z cares more about your purpose than your profit. Not only will they buy your products and services, they won’t want to work for you. Well, if people don’t want to work for you, you won’t be here by 2030. It’s as simple as one generation away from beginning extinct. I don’t care how big your brand is. Instead of saying, how might we make more money? If we’d said, how might we make more money? We’d have put the gate price up by 3%, and we’d have made our quarterly results. But instead of that, we re-expressed the question and said, how might we solve the biggest consumer pain point?

Stop Asking How Might We Make More Money?

Solving the Consumer’s Biggest Pain Point

[38:06] Duncan Wardle:

Well, we all knew what it was. It was standing in line. So we looked around the world, and we found RFID technology, which resulted in business magic bands. Now, you don’t check in or check out. It is your room key. It is your theme park ticket. You swipe and go. It has reservations for your character, meet and greets, favorite rides. You can pay for your merchandise with it, have it sent to your hotel room just by touching it. You can save your fast food on your phone. You go to the restaurant for lunch. The restaurant knows you’re here, knows what dish you’ve ordered, and you’re seated at table 47. Had we have said, how might we make more money? We’d have made 3% profit margin. But because we re-expressed it and asked it through the consumer’s eyes, not ours, the average consumer guest in a Disney park has about two hours free time. They didn’t have four years ago. What has that resulted in? Record revenues. Record guest satisfaction. Record intent to return and intent to recommend. And over 20 million people a year pouring through the gates, live crowdsourcing the future design of every product and service design creates, simply by telling them what they like and what they don’t.

[39:04] Duncan Wardle:

A remarkably powerful tool.

Creative Behaviors That Improve Collaboration

[39:05] Don Costante:

Now, Duncan, within your design thinking innovation toolkit, you spend some time identifying some creative behaviors that enhance the collaboration and innovation process. I know you’ve mentioned a couple today. Specifically, playfulness comes to mind. But what are some other creative behaviors?

[39:22] Duncan Wardle:

Well, we talked about curiosity, asking why, why, why, why, why, why. We talked about signaling, getting the signaling. So I might draw a picture of a birthday present. And I might put it on the wall when people come in. And I’ll ask people to guess what it is. And somebody will say a present. I’ll say, yes, I know you’re physically present. I need you mentally present here. Do we all agree to put our cell phones away? Because we all know our boss and clients gets their cell phone out. And we know how it makes us feel. And we know we’ve done it to other people. But we don’t go up to our boss and clients and say, hey, could you put your cell phone away a minute, please, because I’m presenting. You can’t do that. But you could go back to that picture and say, hey, guys, remember we all agreed to be present. And I’ll watch that person put their cell phone away. But I didn’t have to ask them to do it. I’m getting the behavior I want out of them. I’m creating a good environment. I’m using, yeah, I’m nurturing. Nurturing is another one. That’s the yes and tool that I talked about. We talked about playfulness, curiosity, intuition. A remarkably powerful tool.

Using Intuition to Challenge Data

[40:14] Duncan Wardle:

You have 100 billion neurons in your first brain. You have 100 million neurons in your second brain, which is your gut. And what do we make most of our decisions with? Oh, yeah, we went with our gut. Remarkably powerful tool to go out and sometimes challenge your data. If you’re only looking in your data, you’re only looking where your competition is looking. So how will you find that one insight for innovation? Sometimes by using your intuition. We were tasked by Disneyland Paris to get more people to come more often. Our going in hypotheses was we build it, they will come. Why? Well, because we’ve always done it that way. We just build a new attraction, they’ll come. But our data was clearly missing something because we knew who could afford us, who had an affinity to the brand, who’d been shopping online, who was a 10 out of 10 of them coming this year, but they hadn’t come. So our data was clearly missing something. So I put it to the organization that these people were either liars or procrastinators. They told us they were coming and they didn’t. So let’s go find out. We spent a day in the house of all of our different consumers, 26 different consumers for a day

Discovering the Real Disneyland Paris Consumer Insight

[41:09] Duncan Wardle:

each. And so much more useful than focus groups. People are much more relaxed when they’re at home without a two-way mirror. When they’re at home, they tend to be seated next to a loved one. You get real honesty out of couples, not out of individuals. You know if you BS a bit and your spouse or boyfriend or girlfriend sitting next to you, they’ll bust you straight away. So if you ask a dad in the focus group, what do you do at Disney? He’s going to say, I go on the thrill rides. I’m a manly man. Well, that tells me to build more thrill rides. But his wife, she’s going to go, no, no, no, honey, you did Small World 17 times back to back last year and you really loved it. You get real honesty out of couples. It’s not just what they tell you. It’s what you notice that will confirm or deny your data. We were in a house. I saw a photograph on a mantelpiece and I said, oh, how old are your children? Are four or five? She goes, no, no, they’re 14 or 15. And we came back together and we all had the same clue. And we thought, hmm, there’s something here. So how do I know this to be true? Because everybody listening to the show, if they’re my age, they have a photograph of their

[42:04] Duncan Wardle:

children that’s at least 10 or 15 years old on their fridge or in their kitchen or in their family room. And if you’re young enough that you don’t have children, you are fully aware that your parents have that awkward, dorky one of you on their living room wall that you wish they got rid of years ago. So does that mean we don’t print photographs of our children anymore? We all do. No, we still print photographs of the mitzvahs and weddings and graduations. So we dug a bit deeper and we found that parents will tell you at first pass they want their children to grow up, be happy, healthy and successful. Or do they? Or do they actually secretly want them back in that little photo frame when they walk in the door at night? They’re a god. And so we pushed a bit harder because our intuition was telling us we were onto something here. And we found that there are three bittersweet transitions that take place between a parent and a child. And as you cross through that transition, you both desperately want to step back. But you can’t. I know exactly where I was the day my son asked me. And you said, of course, he was about 10 at the time. I know where I was exactly where I was when my daughter dropped my hand for the first time

[43:05] Duncan Wardle:

in public because she didn’t want to hold daddy’s hand in public anymore because it was embarrassing at the age of 13. I know where I was when we dropped her off for her first job in Manhattan, but we lived in central Florida. We hugged, cheered and laughed. And then we left her in her apartment and cried her eyes out all the way back to the airport. Our going in hypotheses was if we build it, they will come. Our coming out hypotheses was that mom does not wake up in the morning worrying about whether or not Disneyland Paris has new attractions this year. She wakes up every morning worried about how quickly her children are growing up and how she wants to make special merits for them while they still believe, while they still hold my hand, while they’re still here. That is a segmented communication campaign, not a capital investment strategy, one that drove record sales, turned a very product-centric culture into a consumer-centric one, where it is mandatory for every Disney executive to work one or two days, frontline cast member position at Disney theme park, and visit a consumer in their house once a year. Intuition is a very, very powerful tool, often overlooked.

Creativity, Curiosity, and Intuition in the Age of AI

[44:00] Duncan Wardle:

Now, and I’ll finish with this. In the next decade, artificial intelligence is scheduled to take away at least 20% of the jobs of the workforce. Those jobs, IT, that will be replaced because it could be programmed. Legal, how many precedents will the robot know versus the lawyer? However, the four core traits that you were born with that we’ve talked about, you were born creative, you used to play blocks. You were born with an amazing imagination. You were born curious. You used to ask why, why, why, why again. And you make most of the decisions during the day with your intuition. Why are those four core skill sets so employable in the next decade? They perhaps haven’t been. Strategy, planning, critical thinking, and analysis were the ones that got the big bucks in the last decade. Those will all be programmed. I put it to you, the most employable skill sets in the next decade are those that cannot be programmed by artificial intelligence. And I’ve worked with two or three AI experts and asked them, do you believe we will be able to program creativity, intuition, curiosity, imagination anytime in the next 10 years? And the answer is no.

Final Thoughts From Duncan Wardle

[45:02] Don Costante:

So Duncan, here’s my final question, and probably one of the most important. For those listening to today’s discussion, what are your final thoughts?

[45:12] Duncan Wardle:

Do what you love, you’ll be really good at it. If you’re not doing what you love, leave. You have 80 years on this planet. Chances are you’re already a third, or maybe you’re already halfway through. Maybe you’re two thirds of the way through. I decided to leave because I knew I was 75% of the way through. Do what you love, and you’ll be really good at it. How do I know that to be true? The only A I ever got in school, in math, was absentee, because I didn’t show up for the exam. I’m not in finance for a reason. I have big ideas. I have innovative ideas, and I love it, and I’m good at it. And I did it for Disney for 10 years, the most creative company in the world. Now I do it for lots of companies, and help them think differently, and help them develop big ideas. But I love doing it. And so you knew that the subject you liked the most at school was the subject you got the best grades in. Why not apply that to your career?

[45:58] Don Costante:

Wow. Thanks, Duncan. Simply incredible. The information and the tools that you’ve shared today are exactly what everyone needs to know to develop their creative culture. Thanks again, Duncan, for being on the podcast, and I look forward to staying in touch with you.

[46:11] Duncan Wardle:

Cool.

[46:12] Don Costante:

Thanks again. There are some interviews where it can be difficult to get the person I’m speaking with to open up and dive deep into their philosophy. Today was different. Today, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to Duncan as he passionately shared his knowledge and experience that he acquired over a 25-year career with the greatest innovative and creative company in the world, the Walt Disney Company. Walt Disney himself once said, you may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you. Today’s conversation with Duncan on innovation and creativity should be a wake-up call to everybody and metaphorically, a good kick in the teeth. No longer can companies afford to think traditionally. And as Duncan said today, if you don’t innovate, you’re dead. The information that Duncan shared from his experience in the Design Thinking Toolkit is definitely a game changer. It’s almost impossible for me to single out just a few of the key takeaways from our conversation today, but I’ll give it a try. First, marketing will cease to exist within a decade and be replaced by the experience economy. Next, use the words, yes, and to stop a reductive mindset and build upon ideas together.

Don Costante’s Key Takeaways

[47:26] Don Costante:

Remember, the moment you can transfer the power of my idea to our idea is the moment that you accelerate its opportunity to get done. I loved when Duncan talked about the creative behavior playfulness and how playfulness allows us to pursue all sorts of possibilities without being constrained by looking for just one right answer. What did he say? Use energizers whenever you need to, to get people into a playful mindset. And what about ideation sessions? His suggestion was to bring a naive expert into every session. They won’t solve the challenge, but they will say something that will get you outside your river of thinking and thinking differently. And I thought Duncan’s suggestion of re-expressing the question was really interesting. Instead of asking, how might we make more money? Re-express the question by asking, how might we solve the biggest consumer pain point? And finally, what did he say in the last question? I asked him today. Do what you love and you’ll be really good at it. I apologize for the long list, but to be honest, I could have gone on. There was just so much information that really resonated with me. Regardless, I certainly hope that today’s information was as beneficial for you as it was for me.

[48:39] Don Costante:

I want to thank Duncan again for being on the podcast and for sharing his philosophy and the design thinking innovation toolkit with all of us. Well, that wraps up another episode of The Rundown. As always, I encourage you to reach out to me and share your thoughts and or questions at [email protected]Email The Rundown. That’s [email protected]Email The Rundown. Also, I would really appreciate it if you would subscribe and share this podcast and follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. And until the next time, I’m Don Costante.