Transcript

The transcript below has been lightly edited for readability and clarity. Click any starting timestamp to jump to that point in the YouTube video.

[00:00] Don Costante:

Welcome to the Rundown Podcast, hosted by Don Costante, a sports and event management expert with over 25 years experience. This unique podcast provides an opportunity to hear from some of the best professionals in the industry. You'll get valuable insight and perspective on what it takes to deliver authentic experiences, activate brands, and most importantly, connect with audiences. All on the Rundown Podcast. Let's get started.

[00:26] Don Costante:

Have you ever wondered what goes into the process of creating a game presentation from the beginning for a new franchise? I mean, where do you even begin and what exactly are the steps that should be taken to ensure that the experience that you create not only exceeds the expectations of all the stakeholders, but most importantly, makes memories for the fans? Well, I thought it would be interesting to speak with someone who has successfully been through the startup process. In fact, my guest today not only has been through the process, but now finds himself once again in the position of designing an inaugural game presentation for a second National Hockey League team, the newest franchise, the Seattle Kraken. Today's guest is Johnny Greco. And if the name sounds familiar, it should. Johnny was the mastermind behind the Vegas Golden Knights, highly successful entertainment at T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas from 2017 to 2019. Recently, Johnny joined the Seattle Kraken to serve the role as Senior Vice President of Live Entertainment and Game Operations. In this episode, Johnny will share his game presentation philosophy and reveals his methodology for tackling the startup process with a new franchise. Listen as Johnny reflects on the lessons he learned from Vegas and how he plans to approach the game experience for Seattle. In addition, he'll shed some light on his creative process, provide insight into the facilitation of his ideation sessions. He explains the importance of proper execution and identifies the steps he takes to evaluating assets and more. I think we're ready to get started. Let's meet Johnny Greco. Hi, Johnny. Welcome to the rundown.

[02:05] Johnny Greco:

Johnny Greco. Don, thank you so much for having me. Appreciate the introduction. Let's have some fun today.

[02:10] Don Costante:

Man, I love your spirit. If you've listened to my podcast, you know, I like to start with asking people their career path. So take a moment and just tell listeners your path to becoming Senior VP of Live Entertainment and Game Presentation for the Seattle Kraken. Absolutely. Happy to do that. First off, just want to say thanks for letting me join on. I have listened to this podcast. I've learned a ton from it. I heard our good friend Diane's podcast this morning. She was a guest with you recently and constantly learning. Great information. She's a legend. She is. Always good to learn from them. And just thanks for letting me hang out with you for a little while. Oh, man, you bet. Never too busy for you. Come on. So, yes, I've been really, really lucky right now. I just joined the Seattle Kraken. Super stoked for this amazing opportunity. Great sports town. Obviously, hockey is an amazing sport itself. And just this region is hungry for it. So there's a lot of buzz, which is great. And, you know, if you work all the way back where we start, honestly, I'd be curious of your thoughts here. Where does your career start? For me, it's handing in homework on time. It's getting your chores done for mom and dad. It's making sure you're at class at the right time when you're in high school or middle school. You start to develop the skills that are your career early. Right. I always loved photos. I always loved video cameras. I fortunately got to talk my teachers into letting me instead of writing papers, sometimes making films with my classmates, which was unbelievable that they let me kind of do stuff I was really passionate about and love. So I didn't know I was working on my career then. But those skills carry with you to today. Right. Oh, absolutely. It happens early. So I went to film school at Full Sail, now Full Sail University in Orlando and doing the film thing, really wanted to do movies. Loved that and got an opportunity to get into sports through the Florida Marlins. That's dates me a little bit. The Florida Marlins with, you know, legends like Pete Soto, who everybody knows. I'm 19 years old, him and Brian Scott, who's with Van Wagner now. They brought me in. Young kid who didn't even know sports had production. Because I just didn't grow up going to a lot of sporting events. I love sports. I played sports. But I loved movies and music videos and this and that. I didn't realize you could fuse the two together. So that's where I learned there's a whole bunch of cinematic theatrics that go on at sports different than the game itself. The game leads. But what's going on with that mascot? How do we do something fun with the story there? How do we do a backstory on that player? And it basically just showed me a whole new world. So I did three seasons of sports learning with that crew, which was unbelievable. And I'm so glad I know you're doing baseball now, but I'm glad I got baseball out of the way. It is. It is. Happy to have done that. Great experience. Absolutely. And I love baseball. So it was pretty cool to start with that. I did a quick stint with Carnival Cruise Lines, which was I learned a whole bunch really quick in those nine months. And while I was there, I had the opportunity through relationships to go work with Bob Becker, Pete Soto at the Olympics in 2002 in Salt Lake City. And I saw hockey live kind of for the first time there. And I was like, whoa, this is unbelievable. And then I went back to editing wedding videos at Carnival and I was like, oh, I can't do this anymore. I need to get back into sports. So I got a real lucky opportunity, you know, willing to move wherever you could for the gig and the team with the Columbus Blue Jackets. So kind of a new organization. It was their third season. And I did two years there in Columbus, Ohio. Great people really learned with some awesome storytellers and creators there in a non-traditional hockey market. And then after two years, the hockey went on strike. The Cleveland Cavaliers had an opening. And that's actually when I met the famous Don Kostani at that point, because I remember I remember this. I started working for the Cavs along with my incredible wife, you know, Amanda. And I remember going to like the NBA league meetings in New York and Jersey. And I was the super new kid on the block. I'm there. So intimidated listening to guys like John Leach and yourself. And Josh Richardson was coming along. Diane, all these people who had been doing this for a while, who are really good. And now I'm talking to you. It's just kind of a wild trip for me. So I remember working at the Cavs. You were obviously crushing it with the Spurs. And I got to do seven years there in Cleveland, which was awesome. But there was an AHL hockey team that was birthed while I was there. You know, we did all the arena events that were going through there. There was AFL that we had. There was Laundry Football League for a season. So we did a whole bunch of different types of events while that was going on. I got to do the 2010 Olympics there as well, which was, again, off the charts. Super cool. And then I got an opportunity to go work for WWE, which was crazy, like total kick in the teeth as far as storytelling and broke all the things I thought I knew. And I kind of was like, yeah, I figured out this sports entertainment thing. And then I went there and I was like, no, I didn't. And they really like masterclass and everything about storytelling, fan experience, global entertainment, right? Hardcore rules for fun for a fan in Japan or in Newark, New Jersey. There were all these rules about how to create smiles, as Vince McMahon would always say. We're in the business of creating smiles and really flipped everything I had thought about in our world. And then I had an opportunity to join the Vegas Golden Knights. And it was, again, all relationship based. The president of that team was someone who had worked. He was the president of the Lake Erie Monsters at the time, the AHL team. And he was SVP of sponsorship for the Cavs. And he asked me to join him out in Vegas. And that was just unbelievable. And Vegas, you know, kind of a different city in general. They hadn't had professional sports. I'm coming off of the WWE mindset. It was a real cool confluence to try to fuse something together that was a little bit different, right, in general. Than the traditional game ops, kind of one-on-one stuff that we all know and love. And that was just an unbelievable experience. Great people. Built out a phenomenal storytelling team who I just absolutely adore. And, you know, Disney-like story with the team going to the Stanley Cup final year one. We can't produce everything, Don. And that was nothing to do with me, but a lot of fun. And then I had an opportunity to go back to my home state, New York, and work at Madison Square Garden with the New York Rangers, New York Knicks, which was super cool to get back into the NBA for a little bit. And that was, again, nine months. I've had these nine-month snippets where Carnival was great for what it was. Learned a ton. Something great came of it. Madison Square Garden, unbelievable. Great people. So smart. So intelligent. Learned a ton. Nine months. Got a chance to come here now to work in Seattle. Two children. Also took nine months. Proposing to my wife. Took nine months. A lot of, like, good nine-month things that have happened in my life. So being here in Seattle now, super stoked. Really excited to be a part of this family and this group out here. And now I'm speaking with my good friend, Don. Oh, man. That's awesome. Two things really stand out. You went to film school. I'm kind of jealous. I wish I had done that. And then working for WWE. I know that you were there for just over five and a half years. Talk a little bit about what you learned from that experience and how that knowledge really impacted your event presentation philosophy. Film school, by the way, is amazing. And you talk about things like our guidance teachers in high school didn't tell us. Wait. It's like there's jobs in sports and movies. So I feel for you there. I'm glad I had that as part of my experience. It did circle back more recently than right out of the gate for me, I would say. And WWE was a place where the cinematic background and my love of movies definitely took place. Because you start to dig into, like, what a match is. And there's, like, a beginning, middle, and an end. And there's a good guy. And there's a bad guy. Right? There's the villain. And how does the bad guy dress? How does the good guy dress? When a good guy goes up in the corner, he better be checking his back because the bad guy will backstab. When a bad guy goes up in the corner, he doesn't have to worry about it. So he's not even going to pay attention to the good guy because a good guy with honor wouldn't stab a guy in the back. So there's all this crazy psychology then as, like, seven-year-old boys when we're watching WWE and Andre the Giant and Hulk Hogan. We're like, this is awesome. But now, as I use the term loosely, a professional in this industry, you get in there and you start to think about their why for everything. And their character development and what this type of character would do versus this or how the host should welcome the audience in France versus in Ecuador. And what are the universal rules that work in the ring? What physical storytelling can you have that is agnostic of language? Right? When does specificity come into mind when it is, you know, something you're presenting with language? If you're selling a T-shirt, there's different ways to talk to the audience. So being there, being around world-class talent, having Hulk Hogan say, hey, brother, to me? Come on, man. That's awesome. You got to be around this. It was one of the coolest moments. You got to be around these people who lived and breathed story, story, story, character, character, character. And they have the ability to kind of infuse a little bit more of a narrative than traditional sports, right? Because it's a little bit more theatrical. But there's a lot of spontaneity in what they do and how they build up their library of reactions to fan moments and how they play to the psychology of the fan. You set up a match card of like match number one, match number two. The why behind who comes out first, who comes out second, who's going to get the bigger pop. Why would you have a really big match going into intermission? And what kind of match are you going to have coming out of intermission, knowing that maybe everybody's still getting popcorn? There's psychology and like, why are we doing this? The why to every single nuanced element. The reporting of every event was shared widely. Like, how do we get better when we have 12 straight shows in Europe and the UK? How do we tweak show one to show two to show eight? They wanted to fix it all the time. Constant adjustments to develop and evolve. And then you're around these guys like the John Cena's who are just like aliens as far as how they see the world and how educated they are on every single element to the brand and how much passion and love they have for doing it right and giving back to the fans, giving their energy to these fans to, you know, their hard earned dollar. It's worth something. Right. When you can lift someone's spirit, there's something really powerful to that. We're definitely learning that in this pandemic. But it's always been around the ability to share stories, create stories, put out art, right? Put out a voice, put out a song. Back in the Great Depression days, that was how you suspended disbelief just for a moment. Right. That feeling that we can give sports does that naturally. But if the Royals lose 11-0, what are you and your team doing to also create some memories that 50 years from now, that kid who went to his first game in Kansas City is like, oh, my God, I went with my dad and we did this and my mom was there and she got the hot dog. And then the kid probably is not going to remember whether they won or lost. He's going to remember all the other things. Right. The mascot coming up and the song that they got to dance to. And that's the stuff we get to do, brother. And that's powerful, man. That's neat, spirit lifting stuff that is really, really cool. And so WWE gave me a whole different glimpse of what we could be doing in traditional game operations at sporting events. Well, I tell you, like I already mentioned, I'm jealous of that, too, that you had that experience. I love their attention to the why, the intentional direction they have with their storytelling. It's incredible. And I try to do that. I do. And my fix is I go around to theaters and I'll go to tech rehearsals and I'll try to pick up what I can from the theaters here in surrounding areas because I'm always trying to learn. You know, I'm trying to go beyond just sports. I'm trying to bring theater to in that storytelling to the stadiums. And that's why you are who you are, Don. Like you're looking at it bigger than than I again, bigger than I was looking at it a long time ago. But now we look at sports entertainment and fan experience as such a wider thing than going to the baseball game. It's like, no, no, no. Like, how do you adjust the lighting when you're at the theater? How do you bring the audience in? How do you educate them here? And WWE does look at that. And WWE also, they're not afraid to fail. Well, that's the big thing. Not afraid to fail. Right. They are OK failing. And they, in a way, something I learned there was like program to fail. Right. Like we're going to try this new thing here. But you know what? We've got this killer match coming up right after. So if that new thing doesn't hit, we can adjust it and tweak. But we have the home run on standby. We can program all of our shows that way a little bit. Right. There's bigger risks and smaller risks that we can program. But there's something when you like you said, you go to the theater, you go to the movie, you watch your daughter jump into your Zoom call and give you a kiss. And oh, what song are you listening to? We can get inspired by all these different things that happen in our lives. And then you can take it back to what we do. It's just opening your eyes to kind of the nontraditional way to learn. And I think WWE definitely did that for me. And you're again, this is why you have your reputation. Like you've got an open mind to what else is out there. And the baseball, the tradition. Awesome. Great. You know, the region, Kansas City are awesome. But how do you bring in other things that's universally entertaining to elevate that experience for the Kansas City fans? Exactly. That's what you're doing. Now, during my career, I've been fortunate to be a part of a couple of startups, new franchises. I thought it would be great for our listeners to really get some insight into the mindset of somebody like yourself, Johnny, who has been through that process of developing a brand new event presentation right from the start. Yeah. With a new franchise, first with the Vegas Golden Knights and now with the Seattle Kraken. Yeah. So what is your methodology to creating a first class event presentation from scratch? I'll venture to say it probably isn't that different than what you were doing with the Rampage. I think you want to hire great human beings. You want to hire incredible storytellers and experience makers who have a true passion and love for giving the fans something they'll remember forever. And when you surround yourself with really good inspired people, you can move mountains and you can really do some special things. So it always will be people, right? So surround yourself with great people. And I've got a great one in Lamont Buford, who's my teammate here in Seattle with the Game Prez team and live entertainment team. And we're slowly developing this chemistry and like, OK, how are we going to build this team out? You know, you start with those people and all of a sudden impossible is not a word. You start to really dig in and you can do some really neat things with that. And then I would say also like work backwards, right? Go back to that WWE model of why. Why are we doing this? What's the experience that we actually want? And how do we get the reaction that we want? OK, this is our brand. This is how we want fans to feel when they leave our arena. This is how we want them to feel when they proudly put on that sweatshirt or that jersey and start to understand what the region means, what sports team have meant here before. And then you really dig into that and kind of work backwards from there with the great people. And that's like kind of a high arching overview of it. But you start with that and then you can dig into the minutiae and the granular elements. And I would say this, you know, there are world class, award winning, wonderful storytellers that I would love to team up with. But it doesn't mean they're always going to fit with the team you're building or the team you're working with in that case. That was kind of the unique thing in Vegas I learned was you build out your A-list of like, ooh, what would the dream team be? Then you start meeting with all of them. You're like, oh, my God, I love you so much. But this isn't the right thing for us right now. Or the way the team's being built, I don't need that type of creative. I need a creative that is really skilled at this element. So all those things kind of add up as you go. And that's kind of definitely the philosophy, I would say, in building it. But, you know, what was yours 17 years ago? I don't think it dates you that much. I think building something good takes a lot of heart and soul and time. I'm imagining you were doing the same thing there. Yeah, no question. You know, for me, it was learning hockey. I didn't know anything about hockey. Here I was, done basketball. I've done college athletics, but not hockey. For me, it was educating myself first and foremost. And then we were in San Antonio. You're not talking about a hockey town necessarily. So it was really, you know, for me, it was the curiosity factor. It was going out and talking to potential fans and just trying to take in what they like, what they want, and what they might be looking for to create those types of experiences that would promote them and incite them to want to come out and engage one of our shows. So it was a learning experience, no different than what you're saying. You nailed it, though, Don. You nailed it. Literally, like, so the one thing I missed is that, is talking to the fans, is understanding what they want, right? You could come in with all of your experience, right? And say, hey, this is what I think will work. And mostly it will anywhere on the planet because you're good at what you do. But you know what works better? Involve those fans. Talk to those fans, right? Whether you're at Trader Joe's or on a fishing boat or at your kid's soccer game, like, start to understand what matters to them. And now take all those considerations into the mix. All of a sudden, you've got something really powerful fused together. No doubt. I mean, right now, people are all analytical based. That's an important piece of the puzzle. People have to have the courage to step away from the desk, step away from the data, and live in the shoes of the fans for a little bit and learn from them what they want. Yeah. It's really important, the difference, right, of hearing what's being heard and then listening to what's being asked. Exactly. And when you listen to what the fans are asking, right, whether it's social media or even surveys, right, and analytics and this and that, like, all of that's important. But it's also important to feel your gut. It's also important to go against the grain. It's also important to take risks. And I was listening to Duncan on your podcast, the gentleman from Disney before, and he had talked about some of the outstanding, like, you talk about some of the great things he's done. And he's like, well, we didn't have marketing briefs for some of the best things we ever did. It was a spontaneous thing where we just had to, like, ride the lightning. And it turned out to be a success. So I think there's room for all of it. It just depends on the ratio of what you're trying to build out and how much risk you can take and how much autonomy you can have and what kind of leadership you have to try some new things. Let me ask you this. What did you learn from your time in Las Vegas with the Golden Knights that is helping you now in Seattle? Involve, like, real people in the process. Kind of what we were just speaking on. When we first got to Vegas, I wasn't from Vegas. I didn't understand the city. So you think, like, oh, showgirls and casinos and the Strip and all the things that Vegas is definitely known for. And it is a part of that fiber of that community. But we were going down a path of really cliched Vegas stuff that a tourist would make a Vegas show. It's like, what should Vegas have? It should have all this stuff. And people were like, no, no, no. You can't have Elvis be a host for the Golden Knights. That's a terrible idea. And I was like, oh, you start talking to locals. And they're like, no, no, no, this is real Vegas. This is old Vegas. This is UNLV back in the Tarkanian days, you know, like in the 90s. And this is the minor league baseball team that's been here. And, you know, you start to really involve that community and don't come in with too many, like, set disposition plans of like, oh, Seattle is fishermen and this and this. And it rains all the time. Like, that's it's more than that. There's so much more depth than that. There's this rich history of sport. You know, the first ever U.S. team to win the Stanley Cup came from Seattle, Seattle Metropolitan. I didn't know that. 1917. Right. So there's there's like a rich history. So until you dig in and peel in the layers and do some the due diligence of just learning your why, as you start to decide things like first and foremost, it's understanding where you are, who you're creating for and involve real people. Right. You can involve all the best producers on the planet, but if you don't tie in some locality to it, it's going to feel disingenuous. We corrected it quickly in Vegas, but we started down the wrong path. And that, you know, we won't do that here. All right. So that's one thing. What's another thing that you wish you had done differently in Vegas that you're going to change in Seattle? So the biggest challenge, you know, we know this is creators, right? If I say, hey, Don, you got a commercial due tomorrow. You're like, cool, I'll get it done. Or, hey, Don, you got six months to do it. You're like, cool, I'll get it done. Either way, we're going to create something good. But sometimes when there's a ticking clock, we're better as creatives because it just it's not such a vast open platform to go in. Vegas had a four month window before we started games. When I got there, four or five months, it was fast and furious. And you're drinking out of the fire hose and you're trying to get all this stuff put together. And Seattle, it's just inherent in the timing of when I got to join this team. There's time. There's a lot more time than I had in Vegas than our group had there. So I'm really looking forward to that. So it's not necessarily something it was a conscious choice of when this opportunity came about, we're going to have time here. That's the biggest differentiator than the Vegas experience. You know, and then the other one, you know, part two to that is like wherever you go, whatever event you're working, stay true to who you are and who you always were. I also kind of made that mistake in Vegas. I got there. I'm like, oh, West Coast for the first time. And I got to work with all these groups and everybody out in L.A. because I'm near there now. And honestly, some experiences were amazing, but some weren't. And I was like, I kind of lost my footing of my core tribe of creative people that I worked with in Akron, Ohio and New York. And you can bring, you know, we live in a small world now. We can bring creatives all over the place. And I think there's always room for the new and the innovative and the different. But don't lose sight of also literally just where you came from and who you've worked with well before, because if you worked with them well in San Antonio, you're probably going to work well with them in Kansas City, too, right? There's nuances and differences. And you want to team up with local flavor when you can, but don't leave everything else behind. So that's definitely something I'll be respectful of here as well. Now, when you're coming into a new franchise, what's the I mean, you talked about a few things, but what's the biggest to do items outside of staff? Yeah. And, you know, staff is like number one. So slide down to number two in Seattle. There's the 12th man, which is one of the most famous, incredible marketing fan region, sports things on the planet. How genius is that? The Seattle Sounders have their march to the match. Oh, my God. How great is that? The Mariners have been long renowned for their phenomenal productions, agnostic of how the team goes, right? The team doesn't always do well, but they still put out just great content. The Seattle Storm is like just one of the greatest WNBA franchises. So here it's like, well, learn what's here. Learn what's worked. Talk to all the different groups. University of Washington, we're talking to, talking to the Mariners. We talked to last week, the Seahawks in a couple weeks, like, what are you doing that works? What's the secret sauce in Seattle? What have you not been able to do that you wanted to do? What's a really good fail that you did once? What should you never do as a Seattle sports entertainment person? So that's the number one thing is let's learn what this organization's about, what we want to be. And then as we learn this region, let's talk to the other people who've been involved with these other world-class franchises because we're joining this party. We got to earn our spot on this team. We got to earn our spot, you know, in the city. And the way to do that is through honor and respect. And Vegas didn't have the pro sports set up, but you still learn the entertainment industry there. Here, there's obviously the arts and the culture, but there's a lot of sports entertainment here too. So just picking the brains of all those incredible storytellers and helping that to build out what we're going to do for the Kraken. Well, I love that you're out talking to all the different teams about what works and what doesn't work, which is fantastic. But talk a little bit about your approach to learning the culture and traditions within a city itself. So this is super simple. Listen to the radio. What are they talking about? Unfortunately, recently they were talking about forest fires. You know, people say, what kind of music are you going to play at games? I'm like, let me get a feel for what they play on the radio. Like I said, let me go to the grocery store and talk to the person who's also getting apples while I'm getting it. Let me take a bike ride with the kids. And when we stop at the park, talk to the dad who's there with his kids and who's so excited about the Kraken team coming. So it's not always talking to the teams who are professionals who know kind of they speak our language. How do we bring people who are not industry professionals and just talk to them as a fan? You said this, like, let's be a fan. Let's honor the fan by being a fan, by talking to fans and get their lens in what they want. And that, I think, is really, really helpful in this process. Talk a little bit specifically to those that are new to it. How do you use that information to enhance your presentation? So it's all storytelling. And you know this. We got to create a frame of the game. We have to create a script. And oh, by the way, if the Royals hit three home runs in the first inning, your script's probably going to change a little bit. But we have to build this body of an experience that we think will be fun for fans, right? There's your go-tos like kiss cams and stuff that everybody loves. And if somebody hits a home run, you're going to play that song that gets everybody dancing. And all of these elements matter in the story. And you got to make sure all the sponsors are happy and they fit and they vibe with what you're trying to do in the narrative. But it's, again, being a fan. When I come to the arena or the stadium, what do I want to hear? What do I want to feel? What do I want to eat? How intense should we be having our promotional team welcome fans? Welcoming fans in New York City after they've battled on the subway and had a long day at work is a lot different than welcoming them in Arizona, right? It's like, oh, this beautiful outdoor setting. It's the weather's great all the time. You got to learn the audience. And then you build the framework using some of the traditional elements that everybody loves at GameOps and then finding some that are regionally specific to you. And just, again, it's listening to what they want. Definitely, it's more than just the product because we can't really control that product on the ice. But how do we control the experience all around them? How do we build out something that the next day, creating the forever memories, they're talking about the event saying, oh, my God, I was at the Kraken game and they did this thing and I got a T-shirt and the mascot did this and I was on this. And then it's like, oh, cool. Don, did they win? No, no, no. They lost. But oh, my God, can't wait to go next week. Now, if they win, that'll be they won last night. It was a great game. And that should lead. But for the times where that doesn't happen, what are we doing in the experience? And it's simple. It's writing. It's writing. Do I enjoy this? Do I enjoy this? Do I enjoy this? And then it's the ebb and flow like a good film. The high points, the serious points, the low points, honoring the local tradition points, honoring the game points. And, you know, it's building out that again, that frame in your script with specificity and then just being willing to change things as you go. There's a long, long answer. And I can talk about four hours, but I hope that kind of gives you a little bit of a lens in there. No, it's fantastic. So let's talk vision. Vision with the Kraken's game presentation. Where are you seeing it going? How are you seeing it being shaped? So what a cool brand. Oh, man. I love the Kraken, man. I love the logo. It's great. Oh, it's sophisticated, elegant, ominous, like what's under there? What a friend to cheer for. What a cool brand. Just the gear itself. It's sexy. It's sleek. It looks good. But in the game ops world, right, where you look at this stuff is like, okay, if I'm doing a theme park, what would be a lot of fun to work with? It's like, oh, a giant beast from the depths. It's like, oh, we can work with that. So I think we've got a really unique brand here. And the process is going to be probably like, what's the balance of that character, right, as part of your brand, and then building out the rest of your characters. And make no mistakes about it. Your hosts and your PA and your players, of course, and your logo and your team name. Those are all characters. But so is the ice. So is the concourse. So is obviously the mascot. But you can really dig into different characters and getting those to be endearing to the rest of your fans. And how do you build all that out? Again, if the team doesn't play that well or you're having a rough season, how do you have these elements in your show that fans get really excited about, that young kids want to come back to again? And of course, for the hockey, but maybe for the chicken sandwich they have on the concourse that everybody's all about. So I think building this out is going to be quite an experience because the brand is really unique and you're starting from scratch and you're honoring the past and you're trying to be innovative and new. And there's a lot of different elements and ingredients to this recipe as we kind of bake it out. And this is the fun part, Don. We have a little bit of a runway here to really dig into some things, try some different things and, you know, kind of test and learn some different things and kind of go from there. You know, I'm really looking forward to how you immerse the different characters into your storytelling. And I think that's going to be a lot of fun. Tell me a little bit about how much collaboration are you having with ownership or senior level personnel in developing your vision? I'm still new to the team, so I'm earning my spot. I know that ownership and senior leadership is heavily involved and super creative and really passionate about all elements of the business, including game presentation. And the experience, I haven't been here long enough to dig fully into that. I'm looking forward to it. And again, it's all, you know this too, right? You want to make sure the basketball ops, Coach Popovich is happy with what's going on on the court as far as the atmosphere, how many players are in each video. And there's that element because they want to win basketball games. And how do you honor what that vision is on the op side? But then how do you honor the brand side and how do you honor the fan side? And so there's a lot of different, I use the nautical term, captains to the ship, but they all have really important insight to helping define and clarify where we're headed. So haven't dug too far into it, but really excited about those steps as we go, because you just never know where these great ideas might come from. And if you're open to them and you use the yes, and mentality of brainstorming and ideation, you can really come up with some pretty wild stuff. So we're excited about that. Now, with all your experience across all the different organizations that you've worked with, have you found, is there an entertainment resource or a few of them that you feel are going to be essential to fully engaging and immersing the fans into your presentation at the arena? So Seattle's a pretty amazing and unique city when it comes to innovation, right? This answer might be different if you're living in other cities, but you've got obviously Amazon and Boeing and Microsoft. You've got some pretty massive companies here that have changed the world and changed technology and synonymous with innovation. So I think we've got some really unique opportunities with the arena, with the fan experience. But one thing with all of that, because technology can make our lives easier, more efficient. It can elevate experiences for sure. But you never want to lose sight of story, right? There's a quote from Mad Men that I love. It's like, technology is just a glimmering lure that brings you in. But it's not the sentimental connection unless you tie the story to it. So with the technology, it's going to complement everything. And I'm still learning about all the exciting things that are coming about here. But I just know that through previous experiences, right? You could spend all this money on the red camera and you can have the most expensive projectors for your eyes projection. You can do 3D animations and spend a lot of well-earned money that will be used good to help tell the story. But you can also, if you don't get that story right, all of that shine and sparkliness, it doesn't hit. You got to just make sure the story's right and then you complement it with the technology. So specific technology, I don't have a great answer for you right now. Because again, like I said, I'm still kind of learning and digging in. But I think knowing the region we live in, the sky's the limit. And man, it's going to be fun to just be open to all the new things that are out there. Because there's a lot. And if anything, the pandemic's taught us is the ability to like pivot immediately in storytelling, fan experience, and how we create to engage people. So when we're allowed to all be together again in these big, great environments, people are going to want that to high five a stranger and not have to wash their hands five seconds after. We're excited about these moments that will be coming soon. And we just got to be ready for it, right? On the story first, and then the technology, you know, a very, very close second. Too many people just rush into just trying to put technology in there without really giving the due to the storytelling. I'm glad that you're saying that because to me, that's the biggest part. Talk a little bit about what do you believe is going to be the biggest obstacle or challenge for you that you're going to face prior to your first home game? You know, I talked about in Vegas, we had a real short window to put the whole thing together. Here in Seattle, been absolutely gifted a much longer timeline. But in a funny way, sometimes you can overthink stuff, right? You've been in these creative rooms where it's like, we got a great idea. And it's like, oh, well, is it a great idea? Well, maybe we should talk about it. And then you start to, you know, workshop it. It's like, all of a sudden, it's not a great idea anymore. And you're like, man, it probably was if you would have just went with it. But you've thought about it too much. So I think in our world, time is the greatest gift. But that could also become an issue if you start overthinking things. I haven't been here long enough to know if that would be a case here. But I've just known in my own personal space, that's happened where I'll overthink certain things. I do think this is unanimous to all sports and live events right now. It's the potential like receding schedule. You know what I mean? Like we know 2021, here we go. But so much is going to be predicated on how these seasons wrap currently into next season, when they start, how many games. Commissioner Bettman just recently spoke about pushing it back, but not super specific yet. That'll all be coming out. And that will have a cascading effect into our schedule once we get more information. So it's more like hypothetical than actually cemented in kind of like potential challenge. But it's in the back of my mind personally, for sure. So I want to have a little fun with you right now. All right. Is this, has this not been fun down? I'm having a blast, but I want to have a little bit more fun. So I'm going to turn it up a little bit. Let's keep it going. So I know you've had the opportunity to work with a diverse group of entertainment companies out there. And I'm going to mention each of those companies. And I want you to provide me with one takeaway from your experience with that company that has helped shape your approach to entertainment. Got it? That is fun. I like that. That's a good, got to go back in the old brain here at the library to pull out some stuff. Let's see if I can remember. There you go. All right. Let's start with Carnival Cruise Lines. Carnival Cruise Lines was cool because that was my first taste of like a real international production team. And I loved working with different creators who, again, globally understood that a dissolve is a dissolve and the right sound mix is the right sound mix. And a good story in the video world is a good story. And we would build things from multiple languages for ships. And it was just really cool to have such a diverse group of creatives working together. Columbus Blue Jackets. I met some of my best friends on the planet there. Columbus was neat because it was a non-traditional market. And at that point, I didn't really even understand what a traditional market was. But looking back, I can see that. But really, what was funny in Columbus, I learned about the Ohio State Buckeyes and the power of a rivalry. So the Michigan Wolverines, Ohio State rivalry and being there, even though it was with the Blue Jackets, just that community in Columbus, the path for the Buckeyes fueled with the hatred when channeled properly for the Wolverines. I realized the value of a really good guy is a whole hell of a lot better when you have a really good bad guy. And WWE echoed that later in my career. But I think I first learned that there for sure. All right. Cleveland Cavaliers. Cleveland Cavaliers. That opportunity was very memorable and long lasting because they had a show caller for the Cleveland Cavaliers named Amanda Smith, who became Amanda Greco. So she's my wife and I love her and she's the best producer I ever worked with. So definitely that was a takeaway. But the other one was the really unique experience of getting to team up with LeBron James on a few projects. He was really passionate about the videos and the video open in particular. And unintentionally, what he taught me about was the psychology of the players on the court or on the ice or on the field and how what we do as kind of the experience makers support their own psychology. And talking to him about why certain songs played and why it mattered that this song was good for them and the fans would be excited if they got excited. I learned a lot from a few interactions with him on those meetings. And that really has sat with me. And I'm thankful for that time. Oh, man, that's awesome. Oh, yeah. WWE. Storytelling 101. Doesn't have to be complicated. Good guys, good. Bad guys, bad. And you can be anywhere on the planet. And there are hardcore rules of a good story. And we don't have to complicate things. And story first, story first. What about the National Basketball Association? So super lucky to work a few all-star weekends and rehearse. Rehearse. And Don, you know what? We're going to rehearse. They bring in entertainment into that weekend. And they do such a thoughtful process in it. But it's a lot of like, let's rehearse it. Let's do it again. Okay, let's rehearse it. And you see the final product. And while you're doing it, you're like, I can't believe we're rehearsing this again. And then you see the final product. And you're like, oh, that's what happens when you rehearse. It's amazing. So definitely pick that up there. Vegas Golden Knights. Take risks. Program to fail, right? And when you have leadership who supports that kind of vision, that allows you to do it, right? And when something does go wrong, but you've communicated the risk with it and you've programmed something really good on the back end, you can have open dialogue about why it didn't work. And then you can grow into something where it may work. Version 1B of that is hospitality. I didn't realize just how obvious this is. But when someone comes to your venue, your ballpark, your stadium, your arena, you're inviting them into your home. And you're saying, hey, hey, Billy and Sarah, welcome to my home. What do you do when you have a barbecue in your backyard? You bring them in. You introduce them to people. You offer them drinks. You kind of tell them what's going to happen. And hopefully they have a really good time and want to come back. The hospitality industry is so prevalent in Vegas. It exudes every element, right? Whether you get a glass of water at the California pizza kitchen or you're going to a Golden Knights game, like everyone there from the ushers to the ticket sales team to the host, you come in and you're like, hey, everybody, my name is this. Welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm this person. This is what's going to happen. And that hospitality feel is warm and engaging and makes me feel like I can be who I am authentically as a fan. And then I can also, like, I like you. You've made me feel good. So when you say, hey, we need you to get crazy right now because it's a 2-2 game, I'm in. Because you treated me with such respect, I'm going to reciprocate now. But I found that hospitality, as obvious as it sounds, I think it's just an important element to what we do. So what advice are you going to give to somebody who's listening right now who's about to take over live entertainment or game presentation for an organization, whether it's a new franchise or otherwise? Yeah. I think never forget that you've got to earn your spot, right? It doesn't matter how many awards you have. It doesn't matter what's on your resume, right? It helps hopefully get you through that door. But you're new. You're new to this team. And you know that locker room mentality. Like, sports has that faction, right? You want to be in. But you don't just get the invite to join. You've got to earn your spot. You've got to show what you're made of. And part of that is, again, educating yourself on all of your new teammates. And don't, and I've made this mistake, don't be so indulgent to come in and be like, all right, time to change stuff because the new guy's here. Oh, the new girl's here. We're going to change everything. Like, no. Change things with a good why. Change things because they need it. Understand that some of these traditions that have been around 100 years, they're not supposed to be changed because they've been doing it for 99 years before you showed up. So, like, don't just change it to change it. Earn your spot. Listen to what's going on. And then be you, right? Find the authenticity and do what you do. So, now that we've talked a little bit about the mindset for developing an event presentation from scratch with the new franchise, I want to dive deep into an area that I think that you're best known for, creativity. Your work with the Golden Knights, I mean, that pregame show, very well documented. Obviously, that creativity that you were able to bring out with that show didn't just happen on its own. It took a well-orchestrated creative process to bring those ideas to life. So, let's talk about that creative process. And just a few words, what comes to mind when you hear the words creative process? I love that question. Energy, right? If you have energy, we're all made up of energy. And if you bring energy to an idea and you gain momentum and traction and spirit, you can do some pretty powerful things. The creative process, go in there with a real open mind. Hey, we're going to play in the sandbox. We're going to get weird. We're going to get crazy. There's endless possibilities when you're starting. Go really big and then chip away at it and chip away and get it to where it needs to be and then go. So, the creative process is different for everyone. I'm a big collaborator. I don't need to lock myself in a room. And actually, I wouldn't be good at it. Lock myself in a room and be like, here's my vision. It's always our vision. It's not me. It's we. And in Vegas, whatever accolades or attention I get, it's, trust me, it's because of the nine people in the collective group I worked with on the creative side, but just the organization as a whole had a real spirit of like, well, why not? Like, we could do it. Like, let's do it. How do we do that? It was never a no because. It was always the yes and. How do you personally generate ideas? Where did they come from? Yesterday was my incredible son's eighth birthday and we got him this LED strip of lights and Amanda, my wife, is setting it all up in the room and we're playing with the colors and we're nerds. So, we're geeking out. We love it. And then it switches to like this white UV light. And I'm like, whoa, this looks cool. Then I look at my shorts, what has like a really bright orange on it, and it kind of does the black light effect. And I'm like, oh, my God, look at this. And then I started looking at the Seattle Kraken colors and I'm like, if we had UV lights and we did this and turn the lights out and did it, how cool would it be? For the fans to light up. And so, you know this because you said it yourself. You go to the theater. You get ideas. You turn on the radio. You get ideas. Your kid has his eighth birthday and you get ideas. Ideas are everywhere if you're open to them. And when you're open to them, you can start to create things with such different mindsets and twists and turns. And I just, I'm a huge fan of that. So, you get ideas from all over the place and then you write them down. I've got a dry erase board behind me that would give most people nightmares. If you're like into organization, because it's every color. There's sticky notes. There's things upside down. There's doodles. There's, it's ridiculous. But for me, it's like, this is in my brain. I have to get it out. And then you kind of chip away and organize it a little bit. And then you start to have something that's shareable for sure. Taking in random stimulus, movies, shows, theaters. Talking to the fans. YouTube has great content to look at. Fan curated content. Duncan Wardle, he talked about curiosity being so important. He talked about if you're taking a drive to work, take a different path sometime. Love it. Take in different stimulus. Turn to a different radio station just once or twice. Yes. You learn from that. You take all that stimulus in and it helps you in that creative process. I thought that was brilliant. Yeah, it's kind of like we lose it, unfortunately. But like, be a kid. Take something in that's new without any preconceived notions. Try a new food. You know that thing you always do? Flip it on its head or do it with your opposite hand. All of a sudden, you're like, whoa. Like, it just gets you inspired in different ways. And like you said, movies, music, all of those things. This podcast, I am jacked, brother. I want to do something amazing right now. Listening to the podcast of some other guests you've had, you can absorb different elements and then you program them in your own spirit and then you kind of spit them out in a way that fits what you're trying to tell in your story. Let's talk about ideation sessions. There are so many people that when they're holding their ideation sessions, they do it different ways. Yeah. Who's involved outside of your staff with your sessions? Who's not involved is the question. There you go. I'm dead serious. I've found, and this happened again, I was saying Cleveland, right? Like we would do brainstorms for like the video open, which in basketball, especially you know, like 2005, six, seven, eight, it was such a big deal. That open sequence. And what are we going to do? And what's the song? And I realized really quick, the team we had was great, but we could be better. We could have different shapes, sizes, voices, thought processes in this room. So like, let's bring in a ticket sales guy. And you know, the guy from PR who always sends ideas, let's invite him to this mix. And all of a sudden you look around and you're like, whoa, this is a way different group. And then you start to let's spitball some ideas and no one's allowed to say no, or that's stupid. Or you don't do that in the sessions. I'm in, let's get weird. Let's put stuff on the walls. And all of a sudden when you have this openness, man, people get inspired and they just start to share more ideas. Then they start to gain confidence in the environment they're in. Right. So the room that you're in matters. The lighting in that room matters where you sit, how you sit matters, how you welcome people matters and openness. It's an energy thing again, right? If I come in and I'm in a bad mood and I have a vision and I want it to be mine and I don't really want to listen to anybody else, you're going to be able to tell. If I come in like, hey guys, we are going to have something amazing happen today. Who's ready for that? I'm an Oprah nerd. She has a line that I just absolutely love. She goes, whatever follows the phrase I am will be your experience. Whatever follows the phrase I am will be your experience. So before I jump on this awesome gathering you and me are having on this podcast, I'm like, I'm going to have a hell of a time with my friend Don and you know what's happening. I'm having a hell of a time before you get into a creative space. If you're going in there like we are, or I am going to have a great time. We're going to get creative. We're going to get weird. There's no bad ideas. You start to put that into the universe that comes back and man, it's fun. It punches you in the creative face a hundred times. And then because you open the door to so many, you get these ideas that you just wouldn't have had with your initial small group who comes up with great ideas. But when you program, lightly program an ideation session, you can get a lot of wackier ideas that even like an idea that makes everybody laugh and go crazy. What are you talking about? It sparks someone else in the corner who's like, oh, yeah, you know what? That makes me think of. And then you're doing that yes and, and it just perpetuates this again, this vibration of creation. That's really, really fun. And it feels safe. And then you chip it away and you get there and you'll get more specific as some of those meetings go on. But when you're early on, I always say kind of go big and wide. And if somebody wants to be in the room, oh my God, why not invite other people in the room? That's my personal vibe. No, that's great. I mean, I'm a big fan of the naive expert or bringing people in because they might not be able to solve the challenge, but they're going to say something that gets you thinking differently. And I think that that's what's so exciting about it. Talk more in depth, peel back a little bit your format for your ideation sessions. Yeah. So it's like a show, right? I want to set the atmosphere. So if we don't have a conducively creative space at the organization's area, we're going to go to someone's house or we're going to go to like maybe a real comfortable bar and rent out a room. And it's like dry erase boards, sticky boards. We're playing music the minute you get in there. We may have some visuals on the screens. We're going to set an atmosphere that's just kind of different than the day-to-day sitting at the desk, sitting at the office. Like we got to get ourselves out of our headspace to get out of our heads and get kind of, you know, have some fun with this. So that's the first thing is like, let's invite a whole bunch of different people. Let's get to a different location. If you don't have something like that, let's set the mood the right way, dress casually, and let's start to go and start to just spit out different things. Again, it's working backwards, right? If we're going to say, hey, we're working on a 30 second spot that makes people buy the ugly holiday sweater. Okay. How do we want people to feel? When is it released? When is it coming out? Like kind of figure all that out and then work backwards to it, right? As you develop a little bit more specifics, as far as the vision, if you're doing the show open, how do we want people to feel by the end of this video? I want them to want to run on the court and dunk a basketball, or I want them to feel remorseful because they're too quiet, or let's figure out the psychology of what we want as the ending to this. And then let's work our way up to that. But that kind of evolves to that point. Like at first, again, it's really wide, big brushstrokes. What inspires you? What's a movie you saw that you love? And you start to just pick up little snippets and you start writing it all down. And then kind of like you just, you look at this wall of, again, whether it's sticky notes or dry erase boards, and you start to like see certain things pop up or people start to keep gravitating towards one word or one concept. And then, you know, without taking a vote, you start to see where it's headed without making it feel super official. And, you know, in the end, we're the ones that are fortunately employed to be able to kind of help see this vision through. So it's our job to take all of it and then program it. But I just think, again, I'll go back to the food analogy. The more ingredients you have to this creative stew, the better the stew can taste if it's thoughtful and you don't add too much pepper here. You know what I mean? So I think we can create something really tasty when we set an environment to create like that. So we're all born creative and imaginative, but we also know that, you know, as we get older, we get more reductive in our thinking. And so when we're in these types of sessions, we want to be expansive. What are some of the specific tools or strategies that you found useful with your ideation sessions that have facilitated that creative and innovative thinking with the people who are participating? Well, it's super easy to be like, oh, we're really open and all ideas are welcome. Like everyone says that. And then they sit there. We're going to be really creative. It's like, come on. You've been in these. And then all of a sudden the leader in the room is like, well, no, no, no, we can't do that. Well, no, no, we can't do that. And it just, it limits this. And again, this was stuff Duncan was talking about too. I heard him say it. I'm like, oh, I feel like I'm going to be redundant in this answer. But I just think having that childlike mindset peeling back to like, not why can't we, but why not us? You know, impossible is not a word. Let's go ahead and do it. And just being really welcome to that. Some of that happens culturally early on before you're in that ideation session, right? It's when you're onboarding your team. It's the creative tribe that you're going to hire and work with, knowing that you're building a team that's open to that. Like some people may not be, they may have come from a place where the ideation sessions weren't like this, but you get them to kind of drink that Kool-Aid, believe in it. And again, right. If you see it, then you'll believe it sometimes. So sometimes it's just walking the walk, right? Setting the table for, this is what we're going to do. We are going to be X, Y, Z. And then they start to see it and they're like, holy cow, that's real. That's a real thing. It sounded crazy, but it's actually happening. And then you develop a team of believers, right? And when you believe in something, when you're inspired by anything, you can really do something important, special, magical, memorable, but you have to have that spark of inspiration and it's got to be authentic and real. I can't say, hey, Don, we're going to ideate. It's going to be great. It's going to be awesome. We're going to do it at my desk under the fluorescent lights. We have two minutes to do it. And I kind of already have the idea in place, but we're going to ideate anyway. That's not going to work if you're really genuinely trying to create a creative environment and culture. What are the key ingredients to a successful idea? You know, I think it depends on a specific brainstorm and kind of what you're looking for. But in case you couldn't tell, I'm an energy guy. I'm enthusiastic about what we get to do. How lucky are we? I couldn't tell. No. So for me, it's reading the room, right? As producers, are we reading the room always, right? It could be at the dinner table. Oh man, like, looks like someone had tough homework tonight. But when you're in this room and you're in this creative space, it's like, what ideas are generating enthusiasm from others? If you go in there with the psychology of, I'm a fan, I don't want to be overly marketing hat on this net. Like we're creating something and just going to get weird. And what idea do people keep going back to? What idea? Like, look around the room and feel the room. Listen to your audience. Are we hearing them say, yeah, that's good. Or listening to them where, you know, metaphorically, watching them nod their heads a lot. Watching them make eye contact, watching them naturally say, yes, yes. And we could also do this. Yes. And we, and all of a sudden, whoa, this idea, which by the way, I didn't even like, but the room likes, and that's what matters. We need to invest in this a little bit more. So it's constantly producing, listening to your audience and riding that enthusiasm because it may not be as logical. You may in your mind be like, oh my God, that's going to cost so much, but let's not limit ourselves and filter ourselves so much before we get this a little bit further. Because you just never know how it's all going to shake out if you cancel yourself out way too early. So I think it's, sometimes it's that, right? The key ingredient to me is like enthusiasm behind it. Now you got to have story, right? You can't just have, you know what would be great is a lot of fireworks. Everybody has fireworks and people get excited about it. Whoa, hold on. Why are we doing the fireworks? Kind of like, let's make sure we have the why and you work backwards for how you want the fans to feel and react from it. But once those level set standards of the formula are in place, what's generating natural enthusiasm that can continue to go. Now you've mentioned several times. Yes. And I know Duncan in the previous podcast talked about it, but for those people that didn't listen to that episode, talk a little bit about yes. And what that is. Yeah. So it's interesting. Duncan's version of it was in the brainstorming session where I learned it from was working at WWE. I would work with a lot of the hosts and the announcers. And I mean, they're so world class and they're so talented. And we would have like improv coaches come in and voice coaches come in. And it's big in the improv world. That's what it was. And I would jump in every once in a while, but they would do the yes and workshop. You and Duncan did this on the call. It's like, you're not allowed to say no. You're not allowed to say no, we can't. You have to say yes and to anything. So then you can get really weird where it's like, hey, Don, we're going to go to lunch and have a cheeseburger with a Fraggle Rock character. And there's going to be sushi. Say I'm joining us. And I'm going to do everything I can to try to derail you. And you have to with enthusiasm. Yes. And then you just keep going. So again, it kind of goes back to the service hospitality mindset. Right. If we're a production department or we're a fan experience department, our objective is like to make the fans happy and create an environment. And we are a service of joy and smiles and information to the fans. How do we keep that mentality of service industry? One of them is yes and or another one I heard from a good friend of mine from Vegas. I love that she learned this from another boss. She goes, yes is the answer. What is the question, Don? Yes is the answer. What's the question? Like I am service minded and I am so into like figuring out a way here. I'm going to lead with yes. Always. You hear that in a lot of things. But if you live it and breathe it, all of a sudden it goes in your brainstorms. It goes in how you work with your sponsorship team. It goes in with how you work when people are like, oh, we can't do that. And you're like, well, yes, we can. And you just start to constantly go with that. Yes. And what it does is it's an expansive energy lifting kind of way to frame things. And you see the spirit of people be elevated by it. When you have that mom, you can get to the point where you say, well, you know what? Let's really dig in. I don't know about this, but we can do this. Right. Always being solution oriented and brainstorms and meetings and conversations, knowing that we are a service to the fans and our organization. It's a wild practice. I would invite everyone to say yes. And to anything. And I don't mind even going to try to do it because you and Duncan did it so well. Listen to the other podcast just to hear that because that Star Wars night at the Chiefs game you guys came up with George Lucas coming in as Darth Vader. Perfect. I'm in. I was like, that was so much fun to listen to. So when you yes and the sky's the limit. The beautiful thing about it, it's an expansive type of thinking. It takes the idea from being my idea and makes it our idea. Yeah. And that's powerful because the moment you can transfer the power of my idea to our idea, that's the moment you would really accelerate that opportunity to get it done. And I think that that's the wonderful thing about that tool. Absolutely. Everybody who's listening, great tool to utilize. You know, you can go on, just Google improv. Yes. And, and it will give you the details on how to go about doing it. It's pretty cool. It's really a powerful tool. It's a good team building thing, but it's just a good, like humanity thing. Let's just deal with human beings this way. And I think there'd be a lot more love in the world. So you come up with a great idea. How do you go about getting that approved? What's your strategy for pitching those conceptual ideas with leadership that has really proven successful? Again, it goes back to like, you're only as good as your last production, your last show, your last event. So you got to always come in like it's the first day on the job and I got to earn this win here. But when you know, and in the programming world, this is the deal, right? If your dog just died, you probably don't want to tell a joke to that person, right? Know your client and know that the mentality they have in this space. If we're going to present an open or a big concept to somebody who isn't into long, elaborate descriptions, well, then let's hit the hot buttons of what excites them. Let's hit the, the nomenclature that they're going to resonate with and not be confused by. Now, some people want to really get into the weeds and they need the theatrics. They need the performance, they need the enthusiasm in the description so they can buy in and bring that to the table. Like I've messed up quite a few times where I come in again with too much energy and I'm not really that clear in what I'm doing. The passion's there, but they're like, what the hell are you talking about? It's like, oh, okay. It's like, I got to, I have to have a little bit more structure to how I do. So I've learned by kind of miss presenting a few times, some ideas to sort of figure out, okay, who are we talking to? How do they like to be presented and how will they understand the vision knowing that like we're accomplishing a lot of the goals that they've set forth? And I found that that's helpful. And when you're at a certain place long enough, you know, this, it becomes easier to kind of present ideas because they're like, oh yeah. Like that thing you did two years ago with the lights. And it's like, yeah, it's a lot like that. It's like, oh, I love that. Good. Go for it. And once you develop a trust, hopefully you get to that point where they're like, oh, can't wait to hear what you have. What do you got? And there's that sort of momentum and enthusiasm going in, but it doesn't start that way. Like you have to understand who you're speaking to. You got to be clear about the vision and you got to present it in a way that resonates with your audience, which by the way, is the rule for everything. That's the rule for everything. Well, I think that right there is a big part of it. Understand who you're pitching to. If you're pitching an idea to a supervisor or upper management, you're using PowerPoint, you're doing it all wrong. So get, get away. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's different learning styles. You got to understand, are they a visual? Are they auditory? Are they kinesthetic? Or is it a mix of that? You need to take advantage of who you're pitching to. And I think that's a big part of it. Yeah. I miss that. Well, and we run into this with players too, right? Oh, absolutely. You sit with a player and you're like, Hey, we've got this idea. We're going to go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they just look at you like, what are you talking about? And it's like, oh yeah, you're not a production professional. It's like, I need to explain this differently, you know? Or you pull out the computer and show them or walk them through it. Show them a video of, Hey, look what the Tampa Bay Rays did. Look at this. We're going to do something like this, but cooler. And then, oh, I love that. Yeah, let's do it. It's like, oh, that saved me a lot of breath. So it's, it's again, build something that resonates with your audience and then there's clarity. And then, then you can move forward. Along the creative lines, I know we talked about in Seattle, you have, you know, a longer preparation period going on right here, but when do you, have you started or when do you start beginning to develop that concept for the Krakens pregame show? Cause we're nerds, right? I know you're the same way. You're always doing it. When I was in Vegas and you heard, Hey, Seattle's getting hockey. That group there, we're like, Ooh, could you imagine what, what could they be? We started talking about it. Then we weren't working for the team. We just, we like to create, we like to imagine. So having that imagination helps. Once I knew I was part of this organization, thankfully, I remember that the team name coming out and Amanda, my wife and I were watching the whole broadcast of it and like seeing it happen. And I didn't know what the team name was going to be. And it popped up. I was in tears, man. I was like, Oh my God, this is so much fun. So then you're like, okay, it's real. Cause you don't want to go too far down any path until you really knew what the brand was. Then you hear that. Okay. Got to start thinking about it and thinking about it, but also go back. What's the brand supposed to do? There's a lot of incredible teammates I have in Seattle here that have been working for years before I got here. So like, got to be really respectful of all that incredible work they've done, learn from them and then start to create that vision. But in the simplest form, Lamont and I just recently, we're sitting down, we're starting to brainstorm ideas and learn about the nautical phrases and like, how do these things fit in the brand? Now, are we going to go down that path? I don't know, but we got to educate ourselves and have all these ingredients ready. So when it comes to presenting some ideas, we have a wide breadth of what we're looking to do. We are always going to create the best home ice advantage for the sport or home court advantage for the sport or home field advantage for the sport. Cause when that team's winning, man, that's exciting. I'm a lot more apt to buy the extra drink and buy the Jersey, you know, when they're winning. But if that's not the case after home ice advantage, and we focused on that, it's creating that environment like any good film, the ebb and flow of that was funny. That was intense. That was exciting. How do you build in all of the arc of just a lot of good entertainment in an entertainment experience, not a sporting event. But if you think of it that way, and when it's over, you're like, wow, that was really great. And oh my God, that hockey was amazing. But hockey is going to leave. But you know, if it doesn't work out that way, we're going to build something that people are going to enjoy regardless. Outside of entertainment, what's the primary objective of the pregame show? Well, you know, it's interesting, like a basketball, you've got the players are out there, right? Hockey for majority of the players aren't out there. So you're literally creating kind of differently to LeBron's point. You want to make the boys feel great. You want to have them jacked up, but you also want the fans to be ready because if they're cheering, that gets the guys excited. Hockey's different. The guys are in the dressing room. So there's more time first in the hockey format, but there's also just, you were literally creating this for your fans. And simple question, when the team takes the ice, do you want the fans to be quiet or you want it to be really loud, crazy out of their minds? Like, okay, cool. Second option. How do we work back to build that up? And there's a lot of different ways to do it. And you can't do 10 straight minutes, a great song rocking and hits because after 10 minutes, you're tired, your energy spent. So you have to fuel some energy, build it up. Earn some cheers from the fans, bring it back down, earn some cheers, bring it back down. And then, you know, hit the apex at the right time when the team takes the ice and everybody's really loud. And that place is like, whoa. Right. So whether you're going on to the TV broadcast where the team's taking it, people just tune in. It's like, holy cow, what is going on here? That's what you want them to feel. Johnny, I want to take just a step further. Yeah. As you identified what your primary objectives were, let's have you talk listeners through the formula that you found to be most successful at achieving those objectives. So different for each sport, really different for each sport. There's a simple format that I use. I call it the five E's. I've found this to be really, really helpful. This works within the show intro, but it also works for the whole frame of the game, right? You constantly want to educate. So let's talk about this in the show intro format. If I'm educating, where do I educate in this specific spot? Well, tonight, the Seattle crack could take on the Vancouver Canucks. Did you know they're the rival? Did you know last time we played, that's a teaser video. Give me some backstory to why Darth Vader is such a bad guy, because now I'm pulling for Luke Skywalker even more. So give me some backstory to the history of this rivalry, especially if you're trying to build a rivalry. So that's part of your education. There's a lot of different ways to tell that story, but that's part of your education. Engage. The Dallas Stars do this. The Vegas Gold Knights do this. Like, there's a goal song. Do you have a cheer baked into the song? The New York Rangers do this. Is there a call and response, a yay-boo moment for the fans where it's like, hey, you're not just sitting there sitting on your hands watching this video or watching this theatrical play. You're a part of it. So we're going to call you out, and we're going to need you to be a part of this moment. Oh, look, the Canuck logo's on the screen. Are you going to cheer it or boo it? You know, hopefully you boo it, right? If you program it right. So that's where you have your engagement. And then entertainment. Is it fun? God, Don, like, we're in the business of making smiles. Let's create some of those by just having fun. Let's not complicate things. And, oh, it's got to be three-dimensional, blah, blah, blah, blah. Cool. That looks beautiful. But are you having fun? Because most of the crowd probably doesn't understand the difference between 2D and 3D in that moment on the ice projection. They care about how this all feels, right? What's the sentimental connection to it? So are we entertaining? And then enthuse. How have you earned some equity in this enthusiasm to use it for that climax moment when the team takes the ice? Fans are blitzed, crazy, cheering, excited out of their mind. How did we educate, engage, entertain to bring the enthusiasm at the right programmable moment? Because we've infused them with this energy. Now we're channeling it at the right time with the right song, with the ebb and flow of, can't be 10 minutes of intensity. It can be subdued and up and subdued. But at that last bit of enthusiasm, when we need that crescendo, we've programmed the song, the lights, all the other atmospheric elements to make the fans feel they're a part of this engaging moment. And the last E, which doesn't apply necessarily to this, is always evaluate. Like sit back, relax, marinate. How does this feel? And you know this when you're calling a show. You evaluate in the moment, like, oh, that didn't hit, or oh, that was a little late, or that cue. But also the evaluation of watch game film, I call it the pros and grows. Afterwards, write the report, go through it. Specifically, you can do that for the open, but do that for the whole show as a whole and kind of see how that works. I love that. Just to recap, the five E's of emotional experience. I have educate, engage, entertain, enthuse, and evaluate. Yes, sir. Perfect. That's awesome. It's like a few years ago, like the three E's. Yes. And then it was like, oh, wait, there's a fourth E. And I'm like, oh, wait, hold on, there's a fifth E. I'll talk to you in a month or two, and it'll be up to six or seven. Yeah. The 27 E's. Yeah, I hope I get to come back again. That'd be great. Is there something that you have never done, or maybe there's new technology you've been wanting to try that you're planning on incorporating into Seattle's presentation, whether it's pregame or in-game? And if so, what is it? Yeah, for sure. I think any creative in our space is like, oh, my God, I've always wanted to. There's probably a hundred things. I hope the thing that we want at the Seattle show has not been invented yet. Right. I hope it's something that no one's doing. So I don't have that specific answer. But, you know, I heard Diane speak on the podcast, too. Like, those LED drones, like there's a group out of Switzerland called Verity, and I know Madison Square Garden used them for a bit. Those are really cool. And for hockey, there's something to that because you have a really good platform and space to use. You know, I mentioned there's a lot of cool lighting techniques out here and, you know, the UV lighting sort of concept, like how do you make colors pop where fans are immersed in this experience? They're engaged in this experience, but, like, we're literally not asking them for anything. We're going to flip the switch, and all of a sudden they're inserted into this if they weren't already engaged. You know, I love Detroit, the Caesars venue, the lighting they have up in that ceiling. I haven't seen that in many places, and I just think that that's really unique. And I think taking your show and, you know, the standard court projection or ice projection, everyone does that. How do you project on different things? How do you make your environment? Lighting does this, but projection does this as well. Anything on the ceiling, if you have that kind of ceiling, how do you make it feel like this 360 environment that encapsulates all the emotions that you're trying to kind of roll with? Those are some things that are out there. But like I said, I'm hoping it hasn't been invented yet. I'm hoping it's something where you're like, holy cow, did you see what the Kraken did? You know, so TBD on that one. Yeah, no, I totally get it. I can't wait to see it. I'm excited to see what does come out. Okay, so we've talked about and we've highlighted creative and ideation processes. Let's shift gears. Let's briefly discuss maybe you're 60, and that's execution. Yeah. Once you've created the creative concept, it's been approved. What measures are you going through, Johnny, to ensure that it's executed at the highest level? Yeah, right. If that part's not done well, all that other stuff's for naught. In the short term, that's what it feels like. I think there's something about the practice of training the brain and the muscle memory and the creative memory muscle. There's something that builds on top of it. But like at the end, when the sponsor sees what you did and you're like, that's not what we talked about. It's like, oh, okay. So I think one of the things that's always important that we personally, I've neglected a lot and Vegas, we really focused on it was just rehearse. Practice. You want to shoot the free throw with two seconds left of the game, Don, when you haven't taken a shot in 10 years? Or do you want to practice a lot and then probably have more confidence it's going to work? Now, you could miss the free throw, but you're going to get closer to the rim and you've done the work for it. And in live production, good Lord, it's not if things go wrong, it's when. It's going to happen. So rehearse and then rehearse things going wrong and build out your library of backup plans. What's your redundancy? When this happens, what are we going to do? And you're going to mitigate a lot. But again, when you have the right people who've been through some of these things, they're going to figure it out in that moment because they've been battle tested through these moments and they figured it out how to rise above this moment. It's still for the common fan. They may not see what goes wrong, but, you know, we will and we'll evaluate it and we'll fix it. But I think you put yourself in a good spot when you're clear on the vision and the story and what the outcome is supposed to be. And then you rehearse it and then you rehearse again and again and again. And you get it to the point where it feels muscle memory style and then you're ready. Yeah, it becomes reaction versus thinking. A hundred percent. If you start to think in those moments, it's too late. You've already created a moment for somebody to say, what happened there? Yeah, exactly. To have good execution, you've got to have good communication. Can you talk a little bit about the communication that's happening with your team during this process and who's involved outside of yourself with the rehearsals? So obviously you have your core creative team on the production, but I think over communicating all of this is really important. See, I love that. What you just said there, over communicate. Well, there's a lot of things, right? If you share with everyone, hey, we're rehearsing here and there was the liner team president in Vegas, Kerry Bubbles, who's amazing, would use visibility creates accountability. Be visible in your plan. If the Royals have this grand fireworks show on Friday night and you're going to be rehearsing it, but you don't want anyone to take pictures of it ahead of time, be clear that this is what's going on. So people know. So the more people you involve in that, if they choose not to read it, that's a whole separate thing. But if you're clear about what's going on and if something is a little more secretive, more often than not, the people on your team are going to be respectful of that process. So in a way, everybody's involved with that rehearsal process, but some sponsors are going to want to see some of that ahead of time or at least your sponsorship reps. So you can involve them when it's the right time. But you're also going to know, like, there's a time where you got to just dig in and practice and chip away at it and then get it to the point where it's kind of showable internally and then get to the point where it's the muscle memories there and then get to the point where it's like, hey, this is the last rehearsal before we do it in two hours. So let's rock and roll. I think cast the wide net on the communication front there and you'll be a lot less surprised and you won't get burned as often. Speaking of getting burned, I mean, you've been doing this a long time. What about a horror story? Is there an example that you can give when execution just went wrong? I think you could fill, you could have a whole podcast on that. And you can have people talk for six hours about all the things that went wrong. You know, that might make for a good podcast. It would. Yeah, I think that's America's Funniest Home Videos, I think is what that's called. No, never had anything go wrong, Don, actually. Move on. No, I'm just kidding. You know, a recent one, this is when technology is our savior, but it also, it failed us in Vegas. It was our opening night and we had our comms go down and we were introducing your entire team, your entire staff. And it was shortly after the tragedy in Vegas. We had 50 first responders and all these people who have not been part of the entertainment industry. And this is where you hire the right people. So we rehearsed it. We practiced it. We were set up. Our PA was ready. Erin Sequeira, our show caller, was ready. She was amazing. And Tyler Kofor was in the back. And actually, Amanda Greco was in the back. We had a lot of people all helping out with this. And the comms, because we hadn't had a full bowl back a house with comms with a pregame, we hadn't realized that the antenna coverage wasn't good with that many comms in the same area. So we couldn't hear one another as we were working, trying to call out this player and this first responder. And so like literally everybody, you go into triage mode. And fortunately, because we had some really high level experienced people in Tyler and Amanda, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others, they were able to kind of in their own mind, a term I use a lot is produce your position, right? If you guys are the show caller right now, what do you need to do to be successful? And we can't communicate. Text isn't going to work. Phone calls are too loud. We had rehearsed this. And we were kind of in a mode where we just have to kind of roll with this and go. And Aaron did an amazing job. Bruce Cusick, our PA, did an amazing job. And probably 500 other people did an amazing job that night. And it ended up working out, but could have been beyond catastrophic on opening night. I don't even know if I've shared this story before, because there were a lot of things that went well that night. It was really great. But this was kind of the most important thing we were going to do that night. I just remember Aaron being like, all right, everybody, deep breath. Like she was so calm writing the ship that night. And because she'd been through this before, because other people, you hired the right people, they were able to step in, produce their position, assume appropriately where people needed to be. And it ended up working out really well. And we look back and we're like, oh, that wasn't great. But in the general scope of like, how did the fans feel, which really was everything there, they felt good. And they didn't notice the nuanced mistakes that we had. But we had the right people in the right place. And because of the rehearsals, that got us out of a really embarrassing and sad production tragedy following a real tragedy. So glad we had the right people in that night. That doesn't sound like a horror story. That sounds like a success story for preparation. I'm an eternal optimist. I'll always flip it to the positive. So kick me in the teeth. It'll say, cool. I, I, my teeth were Brown. I needed new teeth anyway. What are you talking about? I'm in Memphis men's basketball at the pyramid. I try to do something special. I have the cheerleaders coming out with flags that spell out tigers, six different flags. I decided to go with remote controlled cartridges with blue smoke just to try to make it special. Yeah. I give them the cue. They come running out. Girls come out first guy cheerleaders after that smoke looks amazing. And so the guy started to run around the court and mind you, this is an ABC national televised game. And these guys come running out and it's beautiful. I mean, this smoke looks amazing. The problem is I did not rehearse. I decided to take the advice of my pyro guy and rolled the dice. Well, as the cheerleaders are running, the male cheerleaders, they kept running and running. The smoke kept getting bigger and bigger and thicker and thicker and had a nasty taste. And suddenly now within a few minutes, the smoke was so thick. It was this giant blue cloud. And all I hear is ABC and coaches and everybody kind of not saying very nice things. Oh my God. It was like, what are you doing? And it delayed the game and they had to wait for this cloud of smoke to rise up just enough to be able to play. The people in the poor upper level, they had to look through a blue cloud. That's a horror story for you. That's a better horror story than the one I had. I got to work on my horror stories down. Yours was way better. You do. That's your next podcast. I'll tune into those. Oh gosh. I got many. Right. Let's talk about your fifth E evaluation. So important. I think so many people pass over this particular area. What process do you go through in your evaluation of your event presentation and who's involved? You're a great podcast host because you didn't know about those five E's. Before this thing started, but you inserted it right there. Oh, I'm all over them now. You must be taking a bunch of notes. That was great. So I was never big on evaluations and surveys and things like that really ever. And then at WWE, they do 300 live events a year between all their TV and live events and all over the world, different time zones, everything. And when I got there, they were like, okay, we want you to write a report after every single show. And I'm like, wait, every show? I'm like, yep. And so what they do, there's a practice there. We may have 12 straight shows in Europe. Every single show following it, you write a report. Intro, fans, weather, match one. This is what happened. This was the reaction here. This was the reaction here. Match two. We had our hosts jump in and do this and it really went over well. We did this. This didn't work so well. We're going to fix it for tomorrow. We recorded a superstar disparaging France in this line and the crowd really liked it. He spoke in French. And so we did that all the time. I'm like, I don't know. Is this really helpful? And literally, we would send this to the top. Triple H would get this. Vince McMahon would get this. Stephanie McMahon would get this. You talk about visibility creates accountability. And you just don't know if they're really reading it and you're doing it. And every once in a while, Vince McMahon would send you a note and be like, what was the reaction of this match when the Bellas came out in match six? And I'm like, oh my God, that's like page three in. I can't. It's four in the morning. This guy. This is unbelievable. Like they want to learn. They can always get better. They want to grow. And so I found this value of the nuanced changes, right? The wrestlers themselves would change matches night to night or change. They call it a promo when they speak to the fans and cut a promo, right? But they would change certain words or timing or cadence or the ending line, depending on the city they were in. And it was so fascinating to watch the evaluation process formally and then informally. Just everyone was constantly getting better. And so I saw that. And then once we got to Vegas, I was like, OK, we're not just sports. We're sports entertainment. We're going to evaluate. We're going to tweak. We're going to be relentless. And so I introduced my pros and grows. Pros. What were well, grows. What didn't go so well, but we can grow into and evolve. And again, I'll be eternally optimistic and hopeful about what we can do. So even the evaluation and critique is a growth opportunity, right? It's not a con. So pros and grows. And that's something after each show. I did it. Vegas did it at MSG. And we'll be doing it here in Seattle as well. Just to make sure we're staying on point and staying focused and adjusting different things. And you'll focus some of the evaluations towards the talent, the hosts, maybe. And we also put in links of the game records. We'll record director's tracks so you can listen to the show callers, how they're calling, how people are communicating. If something went really well, let's highlight that in our next meeting and talk about. Listen to this clear communication. Listen to this pivot. OK, we fumbled this area here. How do we fix this? Just when you have an open, again, whether it's brainstorming or just the creative culture of let's be great together, you check the ego at the door and really just dig in and know that we can develop. We can get better. We can you know how great that was. We can even improve, you know. So if anything, that evaluation process, what isn't great, sometimes I don't celebrate the wins enough. I overanalyze and try to keep getting better versus and I've been called out for this and I love it because I need to be coached up. Slow down, Greco. We had a great show. It's like, you're right. My bad. I'll shut up. So that's the evaluation process I've found to be really, really helpful is the pros and grows. So that's great for the entire presentation. Now, when you're doing an evaluation on individual elements, what have you found to be the lifespan of promotional elements? This was an interesting question. So I think it depends on kind of the traditions, too. Right. Oh, absolutely. YMCA in some communities, that'll always be a pretty fun, perfectly corny, happy moment. Right. Whether it's at a wedding or it's at a baseball game or the seventh inning stretch. Take me out to the ball game. You know what, Don? I'm I'm the new Kansas City guy. I think we should lose that song. There's something you're just not going to lose. I'm hoping all baseball teams still do that. I might be way off if I'm taking that away. But like then there's things that, again, let's see how it works. Hopefully your sponsorship doesn't tie you into something that you can't. Isn't a little malleable in case something kind of runs its course. But if it's a great tradition, ride it out, let it go. Don't change it just to change it. But if it's something that has a shelf life, you got to just be willing to call it what it is. Vegas. We had a Vegas strong hero of the game. It fit in with the shooting. There were all these heroes of that community. It wasn't planned. But after the tragedy, we're like, we need to do this. This is really important because there's a there's an appetite for this. So we're going to honor different heroes. And we did it every single game. And it was probably the best moment of every single game where the city got to honor one of their local heroes who were on the front lines doing all these important things. And then we did it through the playoffs. And then we went into next year. And it was like, you know what? It didn't have the same effect. And it felt a little bit, you know, it's important. But the way we were doing it, it was like a little indulgent. Like we were kind of hanging on these legacy fumes of year one. And we needed we pulled it. We changed it and kind of reframed it a little bit. But it never had that same effect. So you just got to be willing to pull it when kind of the crowd says so, you know, you know, hopefully it's not because of a contract. And it's not because somebody in a room is like, I don't like that anymore. Don't do it. Hopefully it's because organically it just doesn't fit. But I would always caution everyone. Don't pull stuff just to make change. Because sometimes you got to ride through that little bit of a bumpy turf to get to that point where the crowd's kind of like, they're a little ambiguous on it. But now they're kind of liking it. And now it's fun to make fun of, which is a good way to channel energy. And now they're into it. And it's like, that's because we kept going with it. You know, let's a really apathetic. Sometimes you got to commit to it for a little while and know this isn't going to work game one. It's probably not going to work game five. But by game 10, there's going to be some traction here. But we got to commit to that a little bit. We can't be overly knee jerk with some things. And that kind of goes into your programming to fail. Know the difference between something that can grow into something or something that needs to just be pulled. I'm curious on the flip side. What about that element out there that maybe, maybe take an owner, for example, has inserted into the presentation and through your evaluation, you're like, this isn't going to work. This is not working. It's been out there for a while. How do you tackle that? How do you handle that situation? You become a professional storyteller and you find the best way to continue to augment that vision and get it to the place where everyone wins. Sometimes we all know this. We all have bosses, right? You're working as the fry dough guy at an Oney on a Yankees game, which I used to do when I was 15, single A baseball. And I was the fry dough guy. If my boss says, I want them burnt more brown and nobody likes eating burnt brown fry dough. It's like, well, I got to do it because we have bosses. But how do you slowly get back to where it needs to be? How do you tell the story maybe to your client who's asking you to change this, where you're sort of coaching them and showing them, hey, this was really good. I took your idea and we use this. Look at how this is working. And you focus on the positive elements to it. And then maybe you can kind of work on the minutiae and shift some of the elements that aren't going. But in the end, you're going to have to do what's asked. Like sometimes it's like, play this song. We want this song here. It's like, whoa, OK. But you hope you can develop those relationships where, OK, we're going to play it. It's not my show. It's not your show. It's the organization show. Let's do what's being asked and let's try to elevate it where we can. I fully remain optimistic that no matter what you're being asked to do, you can find a creative way to finagle it to eventually work to some capacity. And if it's really just a dog every single time, find another way to find that positive where you almost make a joke out of it. Eventually, things catch on for all the right or wrong reasons. So you kind of commit to that cannonball one way or the other. There's always a way to find a win-win. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for the most part. Well, it brings us down to our final question. For those listening, Johnny, to our discussion, what's your final thoughts? Two-part answer here, Don. First off, legitimately, speaking to you and you being a colleague I've always respected and just a friend, I'm happy to be here. So thank you for having me on. Because I remember in, like I said, the New York League meetings in the NBA, you were one of those guys who was talking confidently, elegantly, just owning the room. And I'm like, God, that guy's smart. I want to be like him someday. The fact that I get to be on your podcast and share this is super, super cool for me. So thank you for that. Because I've always really respected all the work you've done and your vibe and how you look at things. So thank you for being a friend. And the second one is with all that we do, there's the doctors and the lawyers and really important jobs out there. You know, just, I would say, don't underestimate the power of what we do as storytellers. The power of lifting the human spirit, right, in the dark times, in the hard times, in the time you're in right now. How much a song can make your heart just skip a beat and feel really good. How much a funny cat video can just make you forget about, you know, a cruddy day for a moment. There's something really important and honorable in what we get to do and creating forever memories in being storytellers, in building that experience that someone's going to talk about 50 years from now that you're never going to know. You're not going to meet them, but they're going to talk about that thing that happened at the Royals game on that Tuesday night against the Brewers when maybe you weren't that excited to do that game. But someone's coming there for the first time ever. So you're honoring that fan and uplifting spirits. And let's always remember that. I think it's important. And I think if we keep doing what we do, man, we can be happy creators and create happiness all over the place. And that's a powerful thing, man. So incredible. Well, Johnny, that's it. We've come to the end of the interview. Right. I got to tell you, I had a great time. Yeah. I really did. And I really do appreciate it. I know how busy your schedule is and you taking the time to share your experiences with the listeners. Much appreciation for you and best wishes to you. And the crack and moving forward. Thanks so much, Don. I love you, brother. I'm proud of all you're doing. And I'm so happy to be on here. So thanks for sharing this hour and a half with me. And let's get at it, brother.

[1:26:45] Don Costante:

What a great conversation. Johnny is definitely somebody who gets it. I love his enthusiasm. And I find his mindset towards event presentation refreshing. The methods and the tactics he shared for creating an authentic event presentation that incorporates the heart and the soul of a city was right on target. I especially enjoyed listening to Johnny's approach to the ideation process and the attention that he gives to building an environment that promotes collaboration and creativity throughout an organization. I personally believe that these practices should be considered the standard by which everyone in our industry should strive to implement. With so much important information covered in our conversation today, here are a few more items that really stuck with me. When I asked Johnny about what he learned from working with WWE, I loved what he said. Open your eyes to non-traditional ways to learn. Open your mind to what else is out there. Look to how you can bring in other things that are universally entertaining and elevate the experience of your events for your fans. When asked about his methodology for creating an event presentation from scratch, what did he say? Three important things. First, hire great human beings. Incredible storytellers who have a true passion for creating unforgettable memories for fans. Second, work backwards. Know your why before you get started. And third, talk to fans. Understand what matters to them. I loved what he said. There's a difference between hearing what's being heard and listening to what's being asked. When I asked Johnny about what entertainment resources will be most essential to fully engaging and creating those immersive experiences for his fans, he immediately said technology. But what I loved is that he said technology can certainly elevate, but you can never lose sight of story. Don't just rely on technology. You have to tie story into it. Complement the story with technology. As we began our discussion on the creative process and I asked him what comes to mind when you hear those two words, what did he say? Energy. And I loved his quote. If you bring energy to an idea, you gain momentum and traction. In spirit, you can do some pretty powerful things. When I asked Johnny about his format for holding ideation sessions, he was very clear. Get a lot of people together. The more, the better. And get them to a different location. Set the mood right from the start. Dress casually. How they sit, where they're sitting. It all matters. And work backwards. Figure out what and how you want people to feel and start from there. And most importantly, be open-minded. Go big and wide with your ideas. And I loved what Johnny said about being the facilitator for the session. Feel the room. Listen and feel your audience. Gauge enthusiasm. Follow the enthusiasm to build on ideas. Now, when it came time to talk about how he went about creating emotional experiences with fans, I loved his five E's. First, educate. Give the backstory to your opponent. The history. The rivalry. Second, engage. Is there a call or response? A yay-boo moment that you can get your fans involved? Third, entertain. Is this fun? After all, we're in the business of being fun. Fourth, enthuse. Channel the energy at the right times. And fifth, evaluate. How does this feel? I love that. I'm all about execution. And when I asked Johnny about what his process was for ensuring proper execution, what did he say? In live programming, it's not if something will go wrong. It's when. So rehearse. And then rehearse again and again and again. And then rehearse things going wrong. Build your library of plan B's. And finally, I loved how he closed out the conversation. He said, don't underestimate the power of what we do as storytellers. The power of uplifting the human spirit in dark times and in hard times is truly special. I could go on and on, but those were just a few highlights from our discussion that resonated with me. And as always, I hope you found the information that we covered beneficial. I want to thank Johnny again for being on the podcast and for sharing his thoughts and best practices with all of us. Well, that wraps up this episode of The Rundown. And as always, I encourage you to reach out to me and share your thoughts and or questions and send them to [email protected]Email The Rundown. That's [email protected]Email The Rundown. Also, I would really appreciate it if you would subscribe and share this podcast and follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. And until the next time, I'm Don Costante.