Transcript

The transcript below has been lightly edited for readability and clarity. Click any starting timestamp to jump to that point in the YouTube video.

[00:00] Don Costante:

Welcome to the Rundown Podcast hosted by Don Costante, a sports and event management expert with over 25 years experience. This unique podcast provides an opportunity to hear from some of the best professionals in the industry. You'll get valuable insight and perspective on what it takes to deliver authentic experiences, activate brands, and most importantly, connect with audiences. All on the Rundown Podcast. Let's get started.

[00:28] Don Costante:

Sports are rooted in storytelling. Amazing stories that need to be told in comprehensive and integrative ways designed to provide fans with authentic experiences. There has never been more importance placed on creative storytelling. And today I thought it would be great to explore the art of storytelling with an award-winning director whose accolades include 62 regional Emmys and over 150 national telly awards. That's incredible. Today's guest is Rob Alberino. For a quarter century, Rob has built successful teams that have gone on to create some of the finest content enjoyed by millions of people. As a young filmmaker for NFL films, he was under the guidance of some of the most prolific storytellers in the business. Rob has navigated the sports and entertainment landscape working alongside some of the most respected franchises in the world, such as the Philadelphia Eagles, Kansas City Chiefs, and the San Francisco 49ers. In this episode, Rob shares his approach to achieving award-winning content. During our conversation, we cover a variety of storytelling topics, including how to generate initial concepts for stories, the ingredients of a great story, the workflow during the creative process, the importance of developing characters, how to get players and fans to participate and achieve desired results, the impact a great editor has on storytelling, advice on developing one's storytelling ability, and much more. I'm ready to get started. Let's meet Rob Alberino. Hey, Rob, welcome to the Rundown Podcast. Thank you so much, man. I'm really excited to be here. I'm excited to talk to you. Last time I saw you was a few years back. I was thinking that too. The last time I think I talked to you was when you were in Kansas City working for the Chiefs. Gosh, has it been that long? Well, I mean, you know, it's two Italians when you get on the mic like this. It's like we just saw each other yesterday. So it's good. Speaking of your time in sports, let's talk a little bit about your experience and your experience spans over 25 years in the sports industry, primarily with the NFL. Rob, can you take a moment and just share with the listeners your career path?

[02:36] Rob Alberino:

Don, absolutely. So you're right. I mean, I always say if it wasn't for a football, I might be unemployable because it's really been sort of the DNA of what I've done. But I went to school in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and literally the day I graduated, the very next day I started with ABC Sports in Pittsburgh, was there for just a little bit and then began working for a sort of a boutique film house in Pittsburgh. Your quintessential agency, right? And worked on everything from incredible pieces for like Lockheed Martin. And we would go to Arizona and watch planes drop in the desert and do pieces on increased lethality to creating things like potato salad factories. In Idaho. I mean, what I tell you, it's spanned the content world, but that's really where I learned how to shoot and sort of write and create. And during my time there, I was given a really great assignment to take over Penn State football at the time. And Penn State football became sort of my bread and butter, which is really my foray into sports. Did a show for Penn State football for two years, plus their basketball pieces for two years under the Dalia Bakovsky company in Pittsburgh. And then NFL Films recruited me to come out to basically to Philadelphia. So I went four hours east and was able to work with the finest American cinematographer, storyteller in sports in Steve Sable, which, you know, if you're our age, right, we grew up with Steve as sort of a beacon for us to point our sports bow on to. So I was one of 19 filmmakers at Films and it was just absolutely incredible. And over the course of two and a half years with them, three years, I worked on private pieces for teams. I wrote inside the NFL for HBO, did a lot of stuff for ESPN. And then the Eagles decided that they were going to kind of create an in-house NFL films of their own, Don. And that was really the renaissance of in-house production groups in the NFL. And to be honest, potentially even major league sports. I know some teams had a little bit of this in-house production group in them, but the Eagles took it to the next level. And over 14 years with the Byrds from 1997 to 2010, we really honed our craft and built an amazing team of storytellers, content creators, editors, in-house people, and took game day to the next level. We did that under a senior vice president, which was Mark Donovan, who then eventually became the president of the Kansas City Chiefs. Mark and I, to this day, remain very, very close. He's an exceptional center of influence for me. And he and I spoke in 2010, and I came out Kansas City way with my family, and we had some amazing years there. The team was lousy on the field, but amazing on the business side. And we were able to kind of work with the rebirth of the new Arrowhead and create a content team called 65 Toss Power Trap Productions there. And it was an amazing team that I inherited and really taught these women and men how to be young storytellers, filmmakers, creators. And in 2013, my wife and I had an unprecedented opportunity. We would have never left the Chiefs. We absolutely, to this day, adore the Chiefs and root for the Chiefs. But we had an opportunity to head to the Bay, which is one of the most beautiful places in the country. And we headed to the San Francisco 49ers. And for eight years, I was their vice president and executive producer for the team, doing almost the same thing, but just elevating it a little bit. We created 49er Studios. And I sort of assembled an all-star cast from my past life, brought them with me. And in that time, we went from about six people to about 35 people in the production and marketing department. And I handled everything from marketing, brand, creative events, game day, you name it. I was mopping the floors if I had to. Actually, in August of this year, like the companies and many teams, the Niners took a financial hit and my position was eliminated. So I am roaming the COVID wasteland, telling stories wherever I can. And my wife and I are excited for the prospects for some great things that are happening in the future. But yeah, it's been 25 years. And I don't think there'll be a big lapse between the work that we've done and the work we're about to do. So we're pretty excited. No, if I know you, I know that for sure. So during your time with the Eagles and the Chiefs and the 49ers, you also had oversight over the game day in-stadium experience. And before we get into the discussion of the artist storytelling, can you share your philosophy in terms of event presentation?

[06:54] Don Costante:

For those people out there listening, this isn't a gratuitous plug. Don and I are peers in this business, so nobody knows this stuff like you do and your team does. I thought you guys did a fabulous job. And when I was in Kansas City, I enjoyed a lot of what was done at Kauffman and a lot that was done by the Royals. You know, the cardinal rule for us, I think for anybody in this business is think like a fan. I tell people all the time, think like a fan. It's really easy to be in sports and kind of puff your chest and say, I know what's better for these people or I know what's better. You know what?

[07:23] Rob Alberino:

Remember when we were kids and we went to a game?

[07:25] Don Costante:

What excited us?

[07:27] Rob Alberino:

What did we like?

[07:28] Don Costante:

What did we want to see?

[07:29] Rob Alberino:

And then as your taste buds mature when you go to sports games, what are you excited to see?

[07:34] Don Costante:

Is it data?

[07:35] Rob Alberino:

Is it how do you rev up the fans?

[07:37] Don Costante:

How do you rev up the players?

[07:38] Rob Alberino:

How do you rev up the fans and the players, right?

[07:41] Don Costante:

So there's some fantastic thought processes. And to me, it's how do you get the juices flowing?

[07:46] Rob Alberino:

And when you're competing with the couch, and I don't care if it's hockey, baseball, basketball, soccer, football. If you're going to compete with the couch, you better have a darn good show and you better think like the fan because they're paying a ton of money to be there. Win, lose or draw. And truly, that was my philosophy of it. And I'll never forget Jeffrey Lurie, who's a fabulous owner. He's with the Eagles still. And in 2002, we decided that we were going to make the shift from Veterans Stadium to Lincoln Financial Field. And I had never done game day. Don, I was terrified. And he's like, hey, Rob, here's a scoop. Make it like a TV show. There you go. And I thought, you know what?

[08:21] Don Costante:

What a great thought process. I don't want any breaks. I want this thing to flow from second one to the last second, from the whistle to the gun. Make it amazing. That's what you do. Just make it amazing, but make it live. And I'm like, let's do it. And so that was a big philosophy for me, but always keeping the fans sort of as that focal point. How do I entertain and kind of give them their bang for the buck, but energize the field as well?

[08:45] Rob Alberino:

Wow. That's what I love about asking this question, though, because there is no right or wrong. I mean, how we do it with the Royals is different than how the Chiefs or Sporting or 49ers. I just love hearing different people's philosophy. I love it. Now, I got to tell you, I am excited about today's discussion because it's not every day I get the opportunity to chat with somebody so accomplished. In an area of our business that is so meaningful, and that's storytelling. So today we're going to dive deep into the world of storytelling. And there's no better person in the sports industry to have this discussion with than you, Rob. I was going to say that guy could show up. So you had me on. No. So I think the best way to begin is to have you define storytelling and what being a storyteller means to you. You know, it's a great question. And there are two things to it. One thing from a business standpoint, look, it's marketing, right?

[09:34] Don Costante:

Content is marketing. Getting people to fall in love with your product is marketing. Now, sports is inherently different, right?

[09:41] Rob Alberino:

Than, let's say, Apple or Samsung or something to that effect because people are literally, they live and die for sports. So there is an emotional connection. But it really is about evangelizing maybe a place or remembering an event or humanizing a person. That's what storytelling is for me. But when it comes to sports, it's really about creating emotion. And again, I'll talk a lot in football terms, which is like taking off the helmet, right?

[10:06] Don Costante:

But football is so hard to get to know the players because there's a physical barrier between that player's face and the crowd. Whereas maybe baseball or basketball, you know what LeBron James looks like. But with football, you've got to take off that helmet to be cliche. And you've got to get under that helmet. And storytelling now is probably the same as it was thousands of years ago. But instead of, you know, drawing on caves, we're doing it with a soundtrack and graphic effects now. But it's really the same thing. It's getting you in touch with something that you could potentially pass on or edify or remember, you know, this event, this place or these people. Now, I've heard you say to be a good storyteller, you have to be a great listener. Can you elaborate a little bit on that?

[10:44] Rob Alberino:

Yeah, you've hung out with me many times and I love to talk. He does. I love to. I love to tell stories. But, you know, if you know me, you also know that I do love to listen. And I love that you're asking that because I love stories. I grew up in an Italian household back east. And one of my favorite things to do is when I go home, you know, I sit at these massive tables with my dad and all of his buddies. And they just tell stories about the neighborhood. And it's this iconic, you know, Scorsese-esque scene where they're just kind of ripping through stories. And I just shut up and listen. And you just you get such great info and insight by listening. You know, as a kid, we're taught to listen a lot and be quiet. But as an adult, it's really great to do, too. And I just I love meeting new people. I love hearing stories. And I tend to not talk about myself when I'm around folks. I tend to just keep digging into what they're about because I'm fascinated. I mean, everybody's got a great story. You just got to kind of get it out of them. And I just really dig listening to what people have. And like you said, walking away from maybe what somebody is going to say about philosophy for event presentation. For me, it's the same thing. I'm going to learn something when I walk away from you. If you're interestingly enough for me to sit and connect with, I'm going to walk away with some nuggets for sure. So when you're sitting there and you're talking to people, obviously you're learning. But where do you get your story inspiration from?

[11:59] Don Costante:

I guess a better question is, where don't I?

[12:01] Rob Alberino:

You're right. Again, I think everybody's got a great stories. There's just stories everywhere. And it's sort of up to us and maybe all these fabulous folks who are listening to this. If you're content creators, I mean, it's it's kind of up to us to unearth them. I think one of the things that I like to say is like making the ordinary extraordinary. You know, there's a lot of ways to do that. You know, there's fans, there's players. It's easy to come up with stories about players, for instance, when you talk about inspiration, because they're sort of widely known. You'll listen to Monday Night Football, let's say, or you'll listen to a Sunday broadcast. And they'll tell you some incredible story about one of the players on the 53 man roster. But how about the millions of people who love those guys, right?

[12:38] Don Costante:

The women and men who love those guys. There's great stories in there, stories of people who have overcome all kinds of crazy odds. And to me, I just get inspiration from sort of the everyday world. And again, it might be sitting at a bar talking with somebody. It might be at my kid's school. It could be sitting around a table and just learning things. One really interesting thing that I've done probably for the last eight years, and I will continue doing it until I'm unable to do it, is every single week. This is a true story. Every single week on a Monday or a Tuesday before the business opens up, you know, if I was working at a team before 830 rolled around, I would throw out on Twitter or Instagram or even just with private talks behind people. I'd find somebody that I would have coffee with, like Don Costante would tweet at me or send me a DM and say, hey, man, I'm really pissed off about my season tickets. And I'd be like, listen, why don't we have coffee?

[13:30] Rob Alberino:

Let's sit and talk. And I would drive within 100 miles of my front door. That was my cutoff, 100 miles. And I've gone that far. Wow. And I would sit with people and I would want to learn their story. And, you know, in the first five minutes, they might get off their chest the things that are really troubling them. And the other 55 minutes plus, we start to talk about why they became a fan. What did they want to see?

[13:49] Don Costante:

Why did they love the team?

[13:50] Rob Alberino:

And, you know, so many good things have come from those types of conversations. And, I mean, I've had hundreds of cups of coffee. Wow. And learned tons from people and history of teams as well. So it's kind of a cool thing that that inspiration comes from everywhere. Wow. That is really cool for those listening. I mean, this is what separates somebody who's good from somebody who's great at what they do. I mean, that's incredible. I appreciate it. No, that's incredible. And it's funny that the guy who actually went on the very first cup of coffee with me here as a 49er, he's a massive fan. He's an incredible guy. His name's Titus Prasino. We've been incredibly close ever since. As a matter of fact, there's not a week that goes by that we don't talk. And that was eight years ago. That's a lesson for everybody out there. Let's talk a little bit about what do you think is the biggest obstacle or challenge to storytelling?

[14:38] Don Costante:

That's a great one. Time and access, in my opinion. You know, our business time isn't infinite. And, you know, you look at like an author who's amazing, Norman McClain or somebody like that, who didn't start writing until he was 75. He was able to concoct these stories for 35 or 40 years and then maybe took him 10 years to write a book. People might know him from A River Runs Through It or Young Men in Fire. But for us, we don't have that kind of time. We're working under deadlines and we're traveling. We're deciding who the people are that we need to connect with and who on our staff. Right before we connected on this call, we were talking about staffs and putting staffs together. And you only have so many human resources, right?

[15:13] Rob Alberino:

So when it comes to trying to tell a story, you need great storytellers, great content creators, and you just need a little bit of time and access. If you can pull those together, you can probably do a good job. But I'd say those are the biggest obstacles. You know, I was reading something with Disney and Bob Iger had written something. He said, perhaps challenging aspects of storytelling often is giving the consumer what they want before they actually know that they want it. And certainly before they express they want it. And that takes instinct and a lot of courage. What do you think of that?

[15:43] Don Costante:

It's actually super brilliant. And, you know, somebody who has done a really great job of that in their career. And you and I have talked about this earlier to this call, which is Steven Spielberg. You know, my dad used to joke, this guy's ahead of the curve by about 10 years. And by the way, I think Disney's a genius. And hopefully we'll talk about him a little bit later. It may be the most innovative of all the influences. Without doubt. Yeah. Without a doubt. But BMX bikes weren't as big as they were until the 80s and ET hit. Right. Dinosaurs, which everybody played with when they were kids, exploded on the scene when Jurassic Park became a thing. Knowing the trajectory of where things might be and putting your entire life into it. I couldn't agree with that more. And boy, does that take significant effort. Oh, yeah. And vision. And courage. Yeah, courage. Yeah, I'll take that even before vision. Yeah. So what's your process when you're generating new concepts for stories?

[16:35] Rob Alberino:

These are great questions. And to me, the process begins pretty wide. I was told by somebody who hired me at the 49ers, the best idea in the room is the best idea. You know, we sit down as a group and we would always talk no matter what place I was at from films all the way to the Niners. And certainly in the future, in the case of things like documentaries, for instance, we would all sit down and just throw ideas on the table. If it was a long form content or a feature based content, what could we talk about?

[17:00] Don Costante:

Everybody throw your concepts and your ideas of these stories that we're going to tell. You know, we kind of looked high and low for the best 10 or 15 ideas. And to see, could we extract three great ones from there?

[17:11] Rob Alberino:

But by bringing in more people into that process, by opening yourself and not guarding that process as if it were, you know, sort of it's mine and I don't want anybody else to touch it. By being able to open that process up to maybe the most novice of employee to the most veteran employee, you probably come up with some really good ideas that maybe you didn't think about. And, you know, what's interesting is when you come up with, for instance, when we were at the Chiefs, we created a documentary that was just absolutely terrific. It was called The Kingdom. And it was stories about fans or maybe players of the past. It was a historical look of stories that should be told or stories from fans that nobody knows about. And we came up with 10 or 15 in this first season. And it was hard to decide what we thought was the best. So everybody kind of put in their two cents. But the second we launched that season and people saw it and we sort of pulled like a little bachelor. Hey, if you know a great story, make sure you email us at XYZ. And when I tell you the things flooded in. So now that process for sort of generating those concepts went from the 12 or 15 women and men that worked with me to the 3 million Chiefs fans. So now you're sitting back and all these ideas are coming in again. Now, instead of that circle being 1090, it's in essence global. And anybody who's willing to listen to good ideas, you want that circle as wide as possible, in my opinion. Well, I love that. I love the fact that you invite more people, not just your staff, but people outside. Kind of that naive expert to come in and kind of challenge you and make you think differently. So I really applaud that. How many times over the course of a season are you holding this process?

[18:44] Don Costante:

Every week. Every week. Yeah. Absolutely. As a matter of fact, you know this better than anybody to the offseason. People like, oh, it must be so great, Don. You know, you get three months off in the summer to do nothing. You're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. As a matter of fact, that's the season typically for those who are courageous enough to be in it or courageous or dumb enough to want to get into sports. Right. There is no offseason anymore. And the season is very metronomic and very deliberate. Baseball season is way worse than football season. You're looking at, what, 160 plus games?

[19:15] Rob Alberino:

Yeah. We have 20 plus games, if you're lucky, 23. And they're very metronomic and not in 2020 because they're like Wednesday games and Tuesday night games. But they're very metronomic and we know where we are. It's the offseason where you gather all that food for that football season. So you're working 52 weeks a year and you're trying to have some sort of semblance of pace, of cadence. Yeah, we're having a lot. I mean, brainstorming meetings, tons. And when you sit down at lunch, you're not talking about the game that week. You're talking about what are we doing next week?

[19:42] Don Costante:

What are we doing next month?

[19:43] Rob Alberino:

What are we doing in the offseason?

[19:45] Don Costante:

As you guys are talking, you're coming up with all these ideas. What are the ingredients that make for a great story?

[19:50] Rob Alberino:

What are the absolute must-haves?

[19:52] Don Costante:

It's a really, really good question. I think a story that needs to be but maybe hasn't been told or one that's demanding of like a greater spotlight. The absolute must-haves, for me, selfishly, as the content creator, like great interviews. It's sort of like you can't have a good meal unless you have good ingredients, right?

[20:08] Rob Alberino:

And that is a key for me. Having people tell the stories is important. Other than that, you've got to have a killer writer. I think somebody who really is insightful with the ability to sort of tackle the subject as an expert. One thing I always try to do is sort of become an expert on my subject. We talked 15 minutes ago about, hey, Rob, you're on a shoot for potato salad. I'm like, potatoes?

[20:27] Don Costante:

First of all, I don't even like potato salad. Now I've got to figure out I'm going to write a piece on it or this is a corporate piece or, hey, you've got to write this. You've got to become an expert. You're going to the chiefs. You've got to become an expert. So in 2010, you sit down and you watch every personal documentary. You watch every highlight they've ever done. I think probably before coming to the chiefs because I knew very little about them. I was with the Eagles pretty much the basis of my career. I think I read a dozen books in under five weeks. So the must-haves are a true knowledge of what you're talking about, people who can amplify it, and or you have to have the ability as the director, EP, or writer to really understand how to amplify this thing so it's organic and it's authentic. Because if you don't have that, if the voices, whether it's the narrator or the interviewer, if they're not honest and organic, then your story's probably in a little bit of trouble before you even get it off the ground. Let's just say now you have a bunch of great stories. What's the criteria that you're going to go through to choose one story over another to start to produce?

[21:25] Rob Alberino:

You know, good decision-making. That's actually happened, right?

[21:28] Don Costante:

You have three pieces of filet mignon in front of you, Don, and you're like, okay, which one are we serving?

[21:32] Rob Alberino:

They all look exactly the same. I think going back to the fan, what people want to hear as opposed to the personal subjectivity. Like, I think this is a really cool idea and I'm in charge. This is the one we're going to go with. I think at that time you step back and it's pretty democratic and you go back sort of to the idea of that process for generating those initial concepts. Like, throw it at the room. Like, what do you guys think?

[21:52] Don Costante:

And by the way, I have a really good – if you're a manager out there and you're struggling with how to manage youthful exuberance versus veteran leadership, whenever I ask questions to a group, I always start with the most novice person. So she maybe started a year ago, whereas somebody who's sitting next to her, she may be there for 10 years. I start with the most novice first and I work my way up because if you go with the most veteran and you ask questions, everybody's just going to follow their lead. So I often, in that good decision-making, when I throw it out to the team, I want to hear what people think that are not in the same realm as me. I love, again, that best idea in the room is the best idea. And if you have three really good ones, I want to know what everybody thinks and I want honesty. I don't want anybody to kind of blow smoke on those kind of things. So, yes, those are tough. And you know what?

[22:37] Rob Alberino:

Like you said, maybe not as courageous as creating a movie or a franchise, but putting yourself out there when you have one shot to do something dynamite for a team that's counting on you to do that, you have to make those right decisions. And when I'm looking at stories and we have a couple of good ideas up there, I want to make sure that I feel that the story is going to offer something to the audience that's fresh and that's thematically interesting. Absolutely. So let's talk about once a story has been approved for production, what is your approach to the research side of it?

[23:04] Don Costante:

Who's involved in that research process?

[23:07] Rob Alberino:

You know, I think that's probably where the circle starts to tighten a little bit. Frankly, you know, I think understanding, let's talk sports specifically, understanding there's probably never one solo project going on at once. Right. So it's not like, okay, all hands on deck. We all, for three weeks, can work on this together. Never are we lucky enough to have such a blessing, right?

[23:25] Don Costante:

You have limited resources, so you sort of divide and conquer and you stack your team on these different projects. But I think that's where it starts to get tight. Somebody brings me a killer idea, whether she or he is junior or veteran, they're on the job. If you were, you know, the genesis of an idea, guess what?

[23:40] Rob Alberino:

You know, pal, you're the lead dog here, so let's do it. And then as the EP or director, which I typically sit in that seat, I'm always involved, if not sort of as a heavy researcher, certainly as just somebody who's leading and teaching along the way and sort of worrying about efficiencies. That story, once you start to produce it, you've really got to carve your team down to what I refer to as the starting lineup, right?

[24:03] Don Costante:

Let's say you're lucky enough to have 10, 15, 20 people on your team. You're like, okay, these are the five chosen ones and here's where we're going to go because now you're stacking your projects. Certainly there's another project either on the heels or parallel to that that has to be done. So it's like a chessboard, right?

[24:17] Rob Alberino:

Yeah. You're kind of moving your pieces around properly. Wow. Let's talk about or have you describe the workflow for the development of a story once the initial concept has been improved for production. Who's involved?

[24:28] Don Costante:

What staff, the collaboration process that you go through, and what's the approval process and who's involved with that?

[24:34] Rob Alberino:

Yeah, I think this is almost one of the easier pieces. Again, kind of going back to the team, they're chess pieces really that you're kind of moving around and you brainstorm with. But from that point, you sort of set your production and your post timelines and you just kind of get after it. There's a lot of cross collaboration and people are working and seeing the work that's being done, even if they're not specifically on the feature itself. But you don't want to have tunnel vision. You definitely want to have people looking at the things that you're doing. But really, at the end of the day, you've got your four or five people. Let's just say that's an arbitrary number, but you have four or five working on this piece, certainly alongside of me. And everywhere I've been, at least I've been the last line of defense for approval. I mean, I've showed things to presidents and owners and the like, I'm sure, like you have as well. But I've really kind of been afforded the honor to sort of be that person that stamps the blessing of approval, which is a huge undertaking and one that runs through a lot of talented eyeballs on your team. But eventually you believe that it is complete and you're like, guess what?

[25:27] Don Costante:

This is ready for air and off it goes. And that's where your reputation rides on that. I think in a half an hour show or an hour long show, the amount of effort, time and thought that goes into that for those not in the production business, they have no concept. I mean, it could be six weeks. It could be eight weeks. It could be even longer than that. But the woman and man hours that go into that are just outrageous. So once it gets to that approval process, a lot of that stuff's kind of been done. And then you have to be the ultimate sort of gavel to make sure it goes out. Talk about the importance of developing your characters within the story and the process by which you go about doing that. That's number one in my book. Absolutely number one. Characters drive story, right?

[26:05] Rob Alberino:

Oh, God. Absolutely. I mean, think about some of the hellacious things you've watched in terrible interviews. If you can't within the first 30 or 40 seconds feel like you're connected to it, you're like, click, I'm going on to the next thing. Right. So you kind of have to know who's telling the story or a part of the story and how they play into the piece. If it's short form, which is probably a lot of the stuff that you and I have worked on more in our career. When I say short form, I mean anything, probably five to 10 minutes max. You have less time to make your point. So if it's long form, you can be much more detailed and you can develop those characters. But if it's short form, you got to get into it. It's kind of cool. What we used to do back in the day was let's say we were putting together a feature on the offensive line or a specific player. We would interview people and we would transcribe everything they said. And then we would physically print out the papers and cut out whatever they were saying. And we would lay out what we thought those transcriptions, how they would tell the story. This is a couple from this interview. This is a bit from this interview. This is a bit. That's awesome. And then we would move and be like, you know what?

[27:01] Don Costante:

This is redundant. Let's lose this. Or what if we put this first?

[27:04] Rob Alberino:

It changes the whole idea of the story. And it was super analog is the word I'm looking for. It was super analog. However, it was the most baller way to read and look at a story. It was like before there was nonlinear editing. There was printing out paper and putting it on the floor. And I always thought it was an amazing way to be able to sort of develop the story and develop the characters because you really had a good balance and you could move things around really quickly. And you could see it happening, which was a kind of a cool thing. But the importance of developing characters is key. Your story is dead if people aren't connected and they don't feel like they are with those folks or whatever is being told. They have to really buy into it and they have to buy into it fairly quickly. Oh, yeah. Without a doubt. Let's talk about your process for script writing. Who's involved and what are the keys to creating successful scripts?

[27:55] Don Costante:

See, this is a tough one for me because there's only really been one person outside of myself in my 25 year career that has really helped me write scripts. Really?

[28:04] Rob Alberino:

Yes. I know it's wild. It scares me to answer this question because I don't want to feel like a narcissist because I'm not. But there are some people who are these amazing editors on your team and these graphic designers and these photogs and they want nothing to do with writing. You know exactly what I'm talking about. And I'm sure if you're out there, one out of every 400 people really knows how to write. And I'm going to give the guy by name. It was Jodane Massad. And I think you know Jodane. Oh, yeah. He's now the executive producer for Notre Dame Sports. And he's first of all, he's an amazing storyteller. Ridiculous. But he and I would craft these scripts. He was with me from 2010 to 2013 at the Chiefs. And we remain incredibly close. As a matter of fact, we've traveled abroad and spoken London together on storytelling and all these cool things. But he always wanted to be a documentarian. And I did as well. And we looked at each other one day. And I guess I'll get a little corny. It was in the 2010 season. And we had a GM named Scott Pioli, who I think a lot of people know if you're Chiefs fans. And didn't work out really well there. But Scott was a madman. But I respected him terribly. And we had a great relationship. But he came from the Patriots. And those of you who know about Patriot and the Patriot ways, it's very, very locked down. So we had very little access. And at that point, what we had to do was create our own access. And so we created a show on fans, which had nothing to do with football, of course. And we would have all the access in the world. And I looked at Jodane. And I'm like, look, man, we need to write these things. We need to write these things because we can't rely on interviews that we don't even know if we're going to get. And so he and I put our hands in. And we had a passion. And it was magical. We sat and tweaked each other's scripts. And we won award on top of award for this. It was really, really cool. But you just have to know, you know, you have to understand how to write. And I know it sounds crazy. But if you're a storyteller coming up and you're listening to this, you know, you got to pick up a book. Processes for script writing include knowing what is good. You need to read. You need to understand, you know, who's out there. If even short form stuff, pick up a great magazine. You know, GQ, Sports Illustrated, The New Yorker. Like pick up killer things that will help you be a good writer. And that means knowing, reading, and understanding good writers as well. You know, there's a couple of books that might help those that are listening who want to be a good writer. There's a book called The Art of Dramatic Writing and also Making a Good Script Great. I would check those out if you're interested in improving your writing skills. I love it. Now, explain to the listeners the difference between cinematography and videography. A lot of people early on that are starting out in this process probably don't understand what the difference is. And discuss how you utilized each at the team level. Yeah, this one's deep. This is good. You might have put some serious time into this podcast. I'm going to start subscribing hard. I got to make sure I'm asking you some deep questions here. No, this is a really good one because they're two very different mediums for certain. Absolutely. I mean, some people would say, if I can see it on TV, what's the difference?

[30:40] Don Costante:

Or if I can see it in the movies, what's the difference?

[30:42] Rob Alberino:

There's a huge difference. Very, very simply, let's just put it in sort of layman's terms. If you're watching broadcast TV versus your favorite movie, there's two very different things that you're doing there. You know, one's sort of about real time and covering action. And the other is about composition in my mind and sort of displaying emotion and storytelling via the lens. A great videographer might be a very lousy cinematographer and vice versa. Somebody who can shoot, let's say, again, we'll go back to football. Somebody who can shoot laces on that ball going 70 miles an hour at the camera. And you can read the serial number on the ball as it's spinning. That's a very different thing than actually setting up a shot and understanding how to maybe have no audio yet. The film is telling you everything you need to see. You know, composition comes into play. Temperature comes into play. Understanding how to evoke emotion just by visuals. Really, really different things. That's almost its own podcast. It really is. It's a great question, though, because one is quick gathering in my mind and figuring out how to do it. And the other is really setting up that shot to perfection so you can tell a story through the glass. I think that's an important piece. You know, I think those that are out there when you're trying to choose between videography or cinematography, if your objective is brand building or marketing, then it makes more sense to hire a cinematographer than a videographer. Correct. Yeah. That's a great answer. Great answer. So what is your secret, buddy?

[31:57] Don Costante:

I want to know what your secret is to getting these players or the fans to participate, cooperate, and more importantly, deliver the results that you're looking for in your projects when you're filming them. This is the million dollar question. And if people are listening, there is one thing that if you do not have it, everything in life fails. And that is trust. And it doesn't happen overnight. It's like your lovely wife, Beth, or Lisa, my wife. It takes 20 years to create really, really good, rock solid trust. You don't have that kind of time as a creator, especially if you're in sports, because these players change teams every three or four years. If you're lucky, you get somebody who stays for 10 years and you can really create that trust. And I had the Donovan McNabs of the world that we had guys like Joe Staley in San Francisco. And you're able to sit and eat with these guys and create that trust. But getting them to not see you, I guess, in sports as sort of the media, you're the in-house guy. Your job is to make them look good. That is the secret to getting players. Hey, you know what?

[32:54] Rob Alberino:

Everybody's going to see all the great things you did on the field. But I'm going to give you something. I used to stand up in front of the players every single year, my hand to God every single year training camp in front of every player and say, look, I'm not the media. But when we're done, you are going to have something for your grandkids' grandkids. You can see all your greatest plays, but all the cool stuff you do behind the scenes, we're going to help you put that together. And the other thing that I would do is anything I ever worked on would win an Emmy for these guys. I would get a statue for them and hand it to them in front of the whole team. Oh, that's awesome. Oh, does that go a long way?

[33:27] Don Costante:

That goes a long way. I bet. But, you know, trust. Let guys know that we're here to tell your story and we're not going to submarine you in any crazy way. And that's the one beautiful thing about what we do, too, on the team side, Don, is I don't want to say we're state-run media, but our job is very different than those out there who are beat writers and working hard and doing all these great things. Our job is to make that team look good. You and I have suffered through some brutal seasons. We've also had some incredible seasons. We're more valuable in the brutal seasons than we are in the incredible seasons because that's where trust is created or eroded, I should say. And that's the secret to getting these players to do things. For me, fans, they were a lot easier because fans are just phenomenal and they want to be a part of their team. But also trust comes into play there. But relationships, you create these relationships with fans. I mean, I still talk to Eagles fans, Chiefs fans, and Niners fans on the daily. And that trust never goes away. That's a big one. That is big. You know, one thing I learned about you, I was trying to do my research and be prepared for this interview. I love it. And one thing I heard, it really resonated with me. I heard something along the lines of when you were hired with the San Francisco 49ers, the president gave you one primary directive. He said, fail often. Why was that important?

[34:35] Rob Alberino:

And what impact did those two words have on your approach to storytelling?

[34:39] Don Costante:

So I had an awesome president when I came. Unfortunately, he was only there for a year. His name is Gideon Yu, and he's a Silicon Valley whale. He's just a brilliant human. He's like one of the first 10 guys in Facebook. He was like the CFO of Google. Just look him up and you'll be blown away, Don. Gideon Yu. And it's funny, all the guys from Philadelphia, they'd be like, who's your boss?

[34:58] Rob Alberino:

I'm like, Gideon Yu. They're like, hey, that's where I went to school. I'm like, no, different Gideon Yu. So the thought process of failing often, it was, look, you're not trying if you're not failing. And totally agree. Right?

[35:09] Don Costante:

That's what drew me, to be honest, to Silicon Valley is how many people come out here. I mean, there are a bajillion people creating apps. Well, there's not a bajillion apps out there. I can tell you that right now. There's a lot more failure than there is success. And he didn't mean it in a negative way. I think you see the word fail and you're like, oh, you know, kind of like you just wince because it's just nobody wants to say they failed. However, you got to take shots. If you miss a bucket, that's a failure, right?

[35:35] Rob Alberino:

If you take a shot and you miss a bucket, well, you failed at scoring. It doesn't necessarily mean stop shooting. It means, OK, maybe get yourself set up. Here we go. And so I really loved the thought process of that. And what it meant to me was, look, man, I'm going to back up and I'm going to let you do what you do best. We're paying you a lot of money to put us in a position to succeed. That means I expect you to get out of your comfort zone. And that's what it meant. Oh, man, that's awesome. I mean, that really hit me. I mean, because the worst thing any organization can do in a dynamic marketplace is to adopt a status quo strategy. I mean, status quo is a losing strategy. Totally. Moving away from things that you've always done comes with some risk. And anything new or different is risky, but it's necessary. So don't be risk adverse. One of the best quotes from Teddy Roosevelt, it said, fail daring greatly. And I heard the president say to you, fail often. I was just like, wow, that's incredible. Yeah. That's a perfect person to work for. Yeah. And it's having people who truly mean what they say is key. And he did. His support was incredible. And the ability to know that you're working for a guy who's not going to judge you. You weren't as good as your last project. You were good as the sum total of your projects. And I think that that was really important. This is a guy like if we did something great. I mean, he wouldn't be like, hey, great job. He would hug us and like our backs would crunch or he would high five you or smack you on your butt. I mean, it was awesome. And so you want that in your corner. Hopefully everybody has that giddy in you in their life. I've heard you say on a couple of occasions that all of the storytelling takes place after the scenes have been shot and you're in the editing room. Talk a little bit about your mindset that you take into the editing session. Nobody makes me look better than my editors. I love my editors. There's a guy that I've been working with for 10 years in Will Blackwell. And he's a guy that I still work with. Matter of fact, I worked with him about an hour and a half ago. And so these are the guys and girls that just do amazing things. And, you know, it's so important. You have a great game plan, right, Don?

[37:23] Don Costante:

You know, you're going to get the appropriate footage, interviews, B-roll stills. Like, I don't know, whatever collateral makes a great story. You pull all that together. You go, you shoot it. You know, it's the hunting and gathering. And then you bring it back. That's just half the battle. Maybe even less than half the battle. I know that sounds almost weird. But really, a great editor, she or he can make those things come to life in a whole new way. Because if you look at the way things are cut or you look at the way music specifically sort of evokes emotion, go find your favorite movie and watch it. Goodfellas is my favorite movie. Watch Goodfellas. Check it out. Watch the first five minutes. And then go back and watch those five minutes and turn the sound all the way down. And you're like, it means absolutely nothing. It's just a picture show, right?

[38:02] Rob Alberino:

But the audio and the delivery of how it flows in that music, I mean, it's a very obvious statement. But, you know, a great editor can make these things just like burst off the screen. Or they just kind of know what to cut. A good editor, in my mind, is not somebody that you're directing to make cuts. It's somebody who's double checking you and keeping your ego in check, right?

[38:23] Don Costante:

Like, hey, what do you think about that?

[38:24] Rob Alberino:

Like, dude, I think that sucks. Okay, that's a good answer because I'm not sure what to think about it. Like, I want somebody to give me real-time feedback on what we're trying to accomplish. That's a craft. It's a true craft. So I think that story truly doesn't come to life until it physically becomes assembling. It's like looking at a box of Lego and then the finished job. You're like, wow, that finished job is amazing. That's kind of where it is. Now, tell listeners, too, when you go into an editing session after you've got done filming, tell people how much of the film actually gets cut out and what you actually use. I actually have a corny percentage. Five percent. I heard. Did you hear?

[39:01] Don Costante:

Have you ever heard this?

[39:02] Rob Alberino:

I heard you say it. I did my research. Word of God. Five percent. That's what I heard. Now, I just went and shot an Olympic volleyball player in Malibu, and I was actually with Will Blackwell. We were doing a little contract work. We used four percent of the footage. Can you believe that?

[39:16] Don Costante:

We used four percent. And I'm like, how is that possible?

[39:19] Rob Alberino:

It's just kind of the numbers end up that way. I mean, you know, you have whatever, 136 shots and you end up using. Don't make me do math on podcasts because I'm Italian. But yeah, you literally use almost nothing. And people would say, how wasteful is that?

[39:32] Don Costante:

Well, I mean, it's like an NFL game. It's actually like six minutes of footage from snap to whistle. But wait, it's three hours. No, it's really only six minutes of actual gameplay. It's nuts how that comes out to be. Oh, man. Now, we're going to have a little bit of fun on the next two questions here. OK. You've had the opportunity to work with a diverse group of entertainment companies. Now, I'm going to mention each company. And I want you to provide me with one takeaway from your experience with that company that has helped shape your approach to storytelling. Got it?

[39:59] Rob Alberino:

OK, let's do it. All right. Now, I hope I get this name right. Dalia Wachowski Productions. You know what?

[40:04] Don Costante:

You pronounced it perfectly right. I'm proud of you. To me, it was the genesis of how I started to think. It was a small company and we had big clients. And how do we make the ordinary look extraordinary?

[40:14] Rob Alberino:

So it really taught me how to be an expert on things that I had no idea about. All right. The Hollywood of sports, NFL films. I think classic filmmaking, Don. Again, led by the greatest of all time, Steve Sable. Used to have meetings every week and 19 people would sit in a theater and your ego was on display. And how did you become a classic filmmaker without taking some lumps and learning from the goat?

[40:38] Don Costante:

And that was I learned how to be a classic filmmaker. Envious, man. Philadelphia Eagles. Probably just making it up as I go. The Indiana Jones of career moves, right?

[40:47] Rob Alberino:

Like, I don't know. I'm just making it up. You know, I think there when I was interviewed, I was asked, hey, do you know how to do production and features and live shows?

[40:54] Don Costante:

I didn't. I lied. I just wanted the job. And so I was like, yeah, I can do all that stuff. And just figuring it out as I went. And we made magic around every corner. What do they call it?

[41:03] Rob Alberino:

Beautiful mistakes. We made beautiful mistakes. So that was really paving my career in storytelling. All right. Kansas City Chiefs. Hmm. These are good, man. I didn't realize I was going to get tested so hard. Probably a testimony to I'd say this is a fair statement to maybe give an A, B here. One is I inherited my crew. I did not bring anybody with me. And I did that on purpose. And the women and men that bought into what I was bringing and trying to teach there, probably, this is crazy, was the best crew I ever had. Because A, I had no preconceived notions of who they were and what they could do. And B, they taught me that I could learn from them and that people who are really hungry can learn. And it was just fresh minds and sort of a different point of view. And then, frankly, that was the first time that I really had leadership. And this is no offense to the Eagles ownership and leadership that was like, look, man, you do the wiping of your hands. Right. You're in it. And the Mark Donovans and Clark Hunts and Tavia Hunt, they were like, this is your show. You figure it out. We're not going to tell you how to do it. And I think that allowing me no, you know, here's all the tools. Go get it. It was unbelievable. And it rocket fueled my career. Okay. And finally, San Francisco 49ers. So these are three really different locations. You're looking gritty, angry Philadelphia, super kind Midwest Kansas City Chiefs. And then the tech capital of the world for me, what I learned here was really how do I put this tech to work and do good old fashioned storytelling, but get it to more audiences than I could ever imagine. So now I'm putting together the same storytelling that Rob Albarino did for 20 plus years, but I now can blast it internationally. I have people banging down my door. I can walk into Facebook. I can walk into Twitter. I can walk into the Pinterest of the world and sit across the table with these people. Wow. And it was unbelievable. Just the relationships, how to get out the story in the most efficient and like laser focused way. I think that's probably what was most learned there. Okay. Another question for you. Yeah. There were a number of great storytellers, filmmakers out there that have produced some outstanding films. I'm going to mention a few. And I want you to provide me with one takeaway from the craft that has influenced your approach to storytelling. Got it. Yeah. I like this game. By the way, you just got to remember, I'm like a trivial pursuit master. I'm a fund of useless knowledge. So this is good for me. I love it. All right. So I believe your favorite Martin Scorsese. The best is best character developer that I've ever seen, you know, using dialogue and limited motion in his shots. I shoot everything. If you watch his films, there's very little camera movement. Everything happens in the frame. He's my hero, as you mentioned, somebody that I mean, look, if I could be a percentage of a percentage of him talent wise, I would be lucky. Plus, he's Italian. How about Steven Spielberg?

[43:45] Don Costante:

We mentioned him. You know, he's as Hollywood as can be. Everything he sort of touches, not everything sort of touches. Everything he touches turns to gold for good reason. He has storylines on top of storylines. He just captures imagination. You know, I think about him employing the people beside him. He makes good decisions on the people who work with him. And then he makes these incredible choices for even the protagonist. One of the thoughts that I think of is like Harrison Ford. I see him as Indiana Jones because I'm a huge Indiana Jones fan. But he's also Han Solo. Those are two really, really different people. But he makes you feel like I mean, it's the same guy. And somehow he has brought us to imagine very quickly that these guys are who they are. He's just an incredible, you know, almost an imagine or he's just this guy who can just come up with things that are just so beyond how other people think. Super talented. What about Ron Howard?

[44:32] Rob Alberino:

I'd say probably the most underrated guy that you've mentioned so far. No doubt. I mean, I'm trying to think of movies, A Beautiful Mind. Apollo 13. Yeah. Apollo 13. Frost Nixon. Yep. As a matter of fact, I think he directed my favorite comedy of all time, which is Night Shift. People don't realize what a dominant force in Hollywood this guy is. And he has touched so many movies. You know, he started out in black and white, for God's sakes. And he's still crushing it. I think he's crushing a lot of the Disney Lucasfilm joints as well. What about Gus Van Sant, a movie that you like?

[45:01] Don Costante:

Good Will Hunting?

[45:02] Rob Alberino:

Not only a movie that I like, but arguably the greatest, probably besides Chinatown, the greatest screenplay ever. As a matter of fact, ready for this, Don?

[45:10] Don Costante:

My daughter and I, we watch one movie a week and I choose the movie. This was, and she's 17, this was the movie last week. Oh, wow. And she literally said to me, Dad, that's a perfect movie. And I literally started talking about Van Sant. I'm like, this guy is super versatile, honey. You don't understand. This guy's like a painter. He's a photographer. He's a musician. He's a writer. But I watched that movie and instead of being so psyched, I've seen the movie a hundred times, at least. And I get jealous every time I watch it that I can't do something as fabulous as that. Wow. So he's my Moby Dick. That's my white whale. Right. Yep. What about the legendary Walt Disney?

[45:43] Rob Alberino:

The best. I mean, I'm a Disney nerd. Me too. Yeah. I have three kids. My 12-year-old is devastated. We just canceled our Disneyland trip, obviously, due to craziness in the world. But, you know, if I could have dinner with anyone, I always talk to my wife, dead or alive, it would be either my dad's dad, Jesus, or Disney. I'm off the point a little bit, but the biggest idea is that this guy is, and we mentioned it, he's like the most innovative mind in the entertainment world, obsessed with learning about him. And I know there's a lot of literature around his life and his beliefs and ideals and things that I don't necessarily share. But this guy was a renaissance man, Don. And, you know, he was a self-made discoverer of things that we never even knew were valid today. Talk about being courageous. There is never a time that I'm not at Disney World or Disneyland, and I see a little girl walking around dressed like Cinderella. And I think to myself, could you imagine, Don, creating something that lasted 80 years and is still thriving?

[46:32] Don Costante:

Like, people don't understand that, right?

[46:34] Rob Alberino:

Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible. He is the icon, period. I totally agree. So we've had our fun. Let's talk a little business now and shift towards storytelling as a business model. Now, the market conditions within the sports industry continue to change, and disruption is being led by technology advances that has had a profound impact on the entire media and entertainment business. And that includes what's being created, how it's being created, how it's being distributed, how it's being consumed, and how it's being monetized. What are your thoughts on where the sports industry is going, and what strategy do you believe teams need to adopt to be successful in the future?

[47:10] Don Costante:

This is the part in your podcast that you might want to bookmark, because this is where I'm either going to get people to fall in love with me or hate my guts. I'm ready. Let's go. All right. All right. Because this is where a lot of people and I differ. You know, I think that the movement here has been to go completely social, right?

[47:25] Rob Alberino:

I mean, you can't get on Twitter. You can't get on IG. A lot of companies have really abandoned sort of long form or even mid form storytelling and sort of replaced it with these consumable nuggets, these little candy sort of bite sized pieces. And these things can be shot on phones, right? We know that it can be delivered pretty quickly. But, you know, there's a massive audience for that. I have zero disagreement in that. I am not the old guy telling people don't use cell phones. But nothing in my mind to go back to the wonderful basis of this podcast is ever going to replace really good storytelling. You know, I've been approached by tech companies. I'm talking last week, large ones who deal and operate in this space in bigger and better and more monetized portions than any teams I've ever worked with. And they are longing for storytelling. I have literally had a guy tell me my hand to God that storytelling is the number one thing tech companies are looking for, which blew my mind, right?

[48:19] Don Costante:

Thinking because the entire world is at our fingertips. I sort of look at the world to answer the question directly as a buffet, right?

[48:25] Rob Alberino:

There's a dessert tray and it's awesome. Everybody wants to go to the dessert tray. They can't get enough of it. It's delicious and it's full of sugar. But if you only ate dessert all meal long, which what I believe to be nine to 11 second little clips that we're seeing, if you only ate that, you'd be super unbalanced. And I've mentioned this a million times to a million different people. Like you have to have balance. You have to have vegetables. You have to have steak. You have to have chicken. You have to have tofu or whatever you like. And I think those things are long form, mid form, short form. And no offense to social media gurus, which means I'm about to probably offend them. But I know firsthand social media people who have never held a true camera. They don't cut a single frame on any platform. They don't watch any movies, nor do they understand production. And they're running teams production departments. And this is a fact. And for me, for what's being created and how it's being created and consumed and monetized, nobody ever went to the movies and said, you know, that movie was great. It was nine seconds and I was in and out. You know, like you have to get in depth to tell these stories. And I think that there's a huge place, especially in sports, to tell these incredible stories about these athletes, fans, whether it's ownership or leadership groups. There has to be a balance. And I think that to go back to the initial question, if I were to lead a team again or if I were to be in leadership, I would absolutely say it's got to be a balanced diet of storytelling and distribution. And the best long play for any company, forget about sports, actually, is just kind of understanding how to engage and monetize and get people and their kids and their kids' kids to fall in love with the team. And to me, that's using those platforms, whether it's Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, the website or old school broadcast ways and use those demographics and create for those demographics. But don't eliminate any one of those demographics. Just decide how you're going to deliver your resources. But if you tip to, you know, it's sort of like the old adage, you know, too much of anything is not good. Right. And I think a lot of teams have been like, you know, we're going completely social, digital, we're getting away from it. At that point, you're going to lose people. And it's important to create emotion and sentiment because that drives business. That drives loyalty. And I think that that's a very, very key piece. It just depends on how you slide that scale and at what times do you do that?

[50:38] Don Costante:

I know that's kind of a weird answer, but. No, no. Sentiment is huge. Huge. That kid, you get to love your team. How many jerseys does he buy?

[50:46] Rob Alberino:

How many games does he come to?

[50:47] Don Costante:

Oh, you bet. And, you know, the other thing to that, Don, is people might say, you know, I have a 12 year old, Estella Gigi. She's the love of my life. And people might say, hey, Stella, let's watch a couple of clips on Patrick Mahomes. And she can see Patrick Mahomes is a fabulous football player. But if that guy signs the back of her jersey. Oh, yeah. Or she has some sort of interaction with him. She'll watch an hour long piece on Patrick Mahomes because she wants to know who this guy is. And that to me, you know, you're never going to get a kid to sit down. Yes, you will. If you're a good storyteller, you will. And that's why, to me, there is no price to put on great storytelling in that situation. Now, I know you kind of answered this a little bit, but I'm still going to ask it. Sure. Where should teams be putting their storytelling efforts towards?

[51:26] Rob Alberino:

Long, mid or short form?

[51:29] Don Costante:

You know, again, I think you do want to spread it out. I see a lot of holes in a lot of people's games. And there are some teams, like I'll take the Minnesota Vikings, for instance. They do an unbelievable job. I think you have a connection there. I do. My son works for them. He's also on the Verizon commercials, too. So if you see a really handsome kid in a pink shirt on the Verizon commercials, that's T-Mobile. Sorry, did I say Verizon?

[51:48] Rob Alberino:

That's terrible. T-Mobile commercial. But their social and digital team and their stadium efforts, like, unbelievable. If you ever get a chance to go see them, and my son's in the corporate sales department, so I'm not even giving him love. I'm giving his peers love. But they do a great job, and they really balance it out well. I don't know if any other team does as good a job as them or is even in the same conversation. The Chiefs do some great long-form stuff in the franchise. If you're listening to this and you're in Kansas City, like, franchise is great. Their social is great. I think some of their holes in their game are in some of their short-form stuff and mid-form stuff. But it's really an art to have all of those things. A balance. Yeah. It's really, really hard, too, Don. And I think figuring out where your strengths are on your platforms will help you decide your demographics and what you should be working towards. But I think it's like a good football team. You don't only want to have a good defensive line and a good secondary. You want to have those good linebackers who can kind of take care of business in the middle. And I think that's one of the things that teams really need to look at and balance their diet out a little bit. Well, you talked about platforms. What platforms have proven most effective in achieving your business goals at the team level?

[52:53] Don Costante:

Boy, what a good question. I would actually throw it back and say it kind of depends on the year, right?

[52:58] Rob Alberino:

It depends a little bit on the team's success on the field. Probably the most engaged. Actually, the highest engaged is Snapchat, which is a mystery to me, just so you know. Like, I enjoy being on it at some point, but it's not where I live. I sort of live in the Twitter space because I'm a little bit more veteran. And, you know, I like to get my news and my sports. But drawing dollars, really Twitter, drawing engagement would be Snapchat. And probably a good combination of both would be Facebook. But again, I guess it's the goals of what you're trying to do. Are you trying to sell tickets?

[53:28] Don Costante:

Are you trying to appease partners?

[53:30] Rob Alberino:

It just depends on how you get their name out there. Twitter is still super powerful. An engaged tweet that can be shared in multiple ways is a pretty darn powerful thing. For those people who are listening, let's talk a little bit about self-development and how they can get better. What advice would you give someone who's listening, who wants to develop their storytelling ability?

[53:50] Don Costante:

Read. Read a book. My son, we used to joke all the time. I'm like, dude, is that book like kryptonite to you?

[53:55] Rob Alberino:

Can you please pick up a book?

[53:57] Don Costante:

Put your tablet down. And I'm not talking about reading on your tablet, which a lot of people do. I'm not a huge fan of it. I love a good old school book that doesn't need batteries. You can throw it in your backpack, take it on the plane. But certainly reading is key for me. And watching things that are important to maybe where you want to be. For me, my favorite shows are I love Last Chance U. Love it. I love Hard Knocks. Love it. There's a show on Netflix called Losers. I love it. It's just good, solid, solid storytelling. But if you really want to see something dynamite, as far as getting good chops as a storyteller, there's a show called Full Color Football that NFL Films did. It's amazing. It's the best sports documentary I've ever seen. I haven't seen it. Full Color Football, dude. It's unbelievable. And if you're a storyteller and you love The Sopranos and Breaking Bad and Narcos, the development of characters in those, no one's better. Those three shows are just dynamite. But I would say focus. You only have so much time to kind of mess around. You can go down a wiki hole and be on Instagram and all these terrible things. Find a way to use that time to self-develop. I love that word. And find a way to use your time well, whether you're watching it by yourself or with somebody that you're down with. But I just say get better. Get better and develop your storytelling and watch things that make sense and can actually make you a little bit better or maybe spark your imagination. Have you found any outside of shows, any specific resources that might help?

[55:15] Rob Alberino:

Well, that's a really good question. I think, you know, the one thing that I would say, and I, boy, do I sound like my grandfather when I say this, but the internet is so outrageous that you can apply for a job, watch a movie, and do research on a paper you need to do. And you can do it in your underwear at three in the morning. There, you know what I'm saying?

[55:31] Don Costante:

Like we had these things called encyclopedias when we were kids, right?

[55:34] Rob Alberino:

And that was all we had. But for you to be able to sit at home and really understand that there are sites that are directed towards your interests. There are sites that are directed towards your field. You can learn so much about your field. Let's say you're a college student. I have a daughter going into college and my son who's just sort of not fresh out of college, but a few years out. I used to say to him, spend a half an hour making yourself better as far as becoming a storyteller. If that's for him, he was in the creative field. For my daughter, she wants to learn about business and she's really into sort of the metaphysical world. And I'm like, dig on that stuff and go to sites that are directed towards those things because instead of just burning an hour on TikTok, you can be actually be learning something sort of becoming a master in your craft means you have this box at your hand that allows you to read and get better on all the things that you're looking at. You can actually watch productions on very specific things. So I would just say I am a time waster as well with my phone in my hand at time. But sometimes I'm like, I'm going to sit for the next half an hour and I'm going to learn about Martin Scorsese's life or I'm going to watch that documentary on the comedy store in West Hollywood. And I'm really going to learn about it because I love going to the store, you know?

[56:35] Don Costante:

And so there's ways you can actually have fun and sort of learn at the same time. Well, you know, not all of us had the privilege of working at NFL films and having the goat teach us how to be great filmmakers. But I will say one way that I've gone around it to try to learn a little bit is masterclass. There's a number of filmmakers that will teach you. They'll go through like the creativity to the storyboarding to scene deconstruction to script writing to you name it. They go into it and it's just amazing. On my honor. I almost bought that for myself about six months ago. You need to. It's worth it. It is unbelievable. All right. I'm in. I can't wait. When we were kids, nobody ever wanted to learn. But I think one of the best parts about being this age and understanding where we are and especially having a lot of time that we have now, regardless whether you're incredibly employed or unemployed, you have time now. Time to think. Time to learn. Yeah. Love it. So it brings us to our final question today. I've enjoyed this. For those listening to today's discussion, what are your final thoughts?

[57:33] Rob Alberino:

Well, I guess I love that more than anything. I think I'm really, this isn't trite. I'm really honored that you would want to talk for an hour with me. I think that's awesome. I've always been a fan of yours and I've always been a fan of your family. And I love being able to, again, this is sort of like if we were kind of brainstorming on a script, we're just kind of brainstorming about good storytelling. And I don't know, I love kind of walking down memory lane. And I think what I would say to those people out there, you can certainly follow me at robertalbarino.com is kind of my life where I go. That's my site or at Robert Albarino on Twitter. But my journey is not over by any stretch. And I can't wait to kind of unveil my world coming up soon. But I will say, take your time on your journey. For instance, if you want to be in the sports world, you want to be in the production world, if you want to be in the script writing world, don't rush to the starting line. Take your time. Make sure you're doing the things that you want to do. For me, I guess I was never worried about making a lot of money. I was more worried about the things that I was going to do, which was really get out there. And as corny as this sounds, as a 50-year-old now, I do arts and crafts for the world. That's what we do. We just kind of put music and prose together and it goes out there to the world. Those things can live on forever. I have all my favorite things I've saved. And a lot of them you can see on robertalbarino.com. But all my favorite things that I've saved so that my kids' kids' kids can see them. And having that legacy, hey, my dad was a part of this or my dad created this, that was way more important for me than making tons of money. Now, some people go the complete opposite way and that's perfectly fine too. But if you're going to be in the creative world, don't halfway. Do the things that are right because there's a lot of people who want to do what we do. And it takes fortitude. It takes courage, to use that word again. And it takes effort and time. And it's a craft that has to be created. And so take your time, learn as much as you humanly possibly can, and enjoy the ride because it goes so fast, right?

[59:21] Don Costante:

So that would be my final thoughts is enjoy the ride because I can't wait to see the next wave of storytellers that come out because they're going to be the ones when you and I are sitting around with a couple of marbles bouncing around. We're going to be watching their stuff. So it better be good. Incredible insight. Great feedback. I can't thank you enough, Rob. I mean, this has just been so much fun talking about storytelling. It's the root of what we do. And to talk to somebody, like I said in the beginning, who has legendary status on putting together stories that have just captivated so many people out there. It's just been a true honor for me. I know that the listeners have enjoyed it as well. I appreciate it. Thank you again for being on this podcast, buddy. Thanks so much, man. And best of luck to you. And can't wait to hear more of these.

[1:00:03] Don Costante:

Wow. What a great conversation with Rob. There is no doubt. He's an extremely talented and skilled filmmaker. His energy combined with his love for telling stories is truly what separates him from others in our industry. The content that he creates is crafted with intentional purpose designed to elevate the emotional connections people have with his stories. His passion is contagious and I thoroughly enjoy diving into the world of storytelling with one of the best in the business. Now we covered a significant amount of important information in our conversation today. Here are some topics that I found particularly interesting. I love Rob's idea that a good storyteller must be a great listener. You get such great insight and information just from listening. Everybody's got a great story. You just got to get it out of them. When I asked Rob about finding inspiration for stories, he talked about carving time out each week to meet with fans that he would drive up to a hundred miles just to have coffee and sit with people to learn their story. There's a lesson there for all of us. As we talked about the process for generating new ideas for stories, I loved what he said. Open the process up by bringing in others from outside. Don't guard the process as if it's only mine and nobody else can touch it. From novice to veteran employees, you want that circle to be as wide as possible. When we talked about making decisions or gathering input from staff, I thought his advice was brilliant. He said, start with the most novice person first and then work your way up. If you start with a veteran, everyone will follow their lead. When I asked Rob about the key to becoming a good script writer, he said in simple terms, pick up a book and read. The process for script writing includes knowing what is good. You need to read. You need to know and understand good writers. And finally, I really loved the message he had for those who are starting out. Take your time in your journey and do the things that you want to do. To be successful, don't halfway it. Do things right because there are a lot of people who want to do what we do. What did he say?

[1:02:17] Rob Alberino:

It takes fortitude. It takes courage. It takes effort and time. And it's a craft that has to be created. So take your time, learn as much as you can. And most importantly, enjoy the ride. I could go on, but those are just a few highlights from our discussion that resonated with me. As always, I hope you found the information covered beneficial. I want to thank Rob again for being on the podcast and for sharing his thoughts and best practices with all of us. Well, that wraps up this episode of the rundown. As always, I encourage you to reach out to me and share your thoughts and or questions and send them to [email protected]Email The Rundown. Also, I would really appreciate it if you would subscribe and share this podcast and follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. And until the next time, I'm Don Costante.